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Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

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Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#621
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to cancel French immersion teachers? https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=french+language+immer... Or nurses? https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=registered+nurse&city... The problem isn't H-1B. It's H-1B dependent employers gaming the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B-dependent_employer https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62c-h1b-depende...

Those are really small percentages of people. I doubt they were referencing french immersion teachers https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/reports/o... Computer-Related Occupations is more than half

The position of "Can we just cancel this program please?" I take to mean all of the H-1B visas. This is a position that I've often seen echoed by people who haven't considered the other positions that use this program and instead see it dominated by technology.

... And it is dominated by technology. And you can see that in the charts and tables of "Top H-1B employers by visa approval" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Top_H-1B_employers_b... and how it changed from 2006 to 2017. Everyone I know who is on a H-1B or H-4 visa is affiliated with a technology job.

There's also a loophole that if one's spouse is approved under a H-1B visa and they're under an H-4 visa, they can also work in a H-1B visa field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

    Work Authorization 
    H-1B holder: Allowed to work for sponsoring employer
    H-4 dependents: Eligible if H-1B spouse has approved I-140 immigrant petition or H-1B status beyond 6 years under AC21
This also brings up another option. Let's create a new classification of the H visa. Let's call it the H-1T visa. They've done this before - the H-1C visa ( https://www.uscis.gov/archive/h-1c-registered-nurse-working-... ) used to be the one that nurses could get approved under from 1999 to 2009.

So, spitballing the idea... the H-1T visa would be for all STEM positions. This does not extend to a spouse (the spouse would need their own approval). This visa would be for all professions classified as 15-xxxx, 17-xxxx, and 19-xxxx by the BLS ( https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes_stru.htm ). That is, if your job is 15-1234 and you are a foreign worker, you must have an H-1T (or O-1) visa. The H-1T visa would have a different cap that is independent from the H-1B visa lottery and instead of a lottery it is done by auction. There is a 10% of salary fee paid with a minimum of $10,000 that is to be paid into the SMART scholarship and S-STEM programs. Applicants under this program may not be paid less than the median wage as determined for that profession ( https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes151251.htm ) regardless of skill level for the location where the employee is based. Companies with more than 10% H-1T visa employees may not apply for new H-1T visas if their employees are not compensated for 2000 hours of work or PTO a year (prorated for hire and termination dates - no more than 50 hours a week may be counted for an employee). Positions to be filled by a H-1T visa must first be advertised and open for 30 days on usajobs.gov (expanding the scope of the site) before applications from foreign nationals or other H-1T visa holders may apply to it. Random audits may be done for any position listed and filled by a H-1T visa holder to ensure that the position matches the job listing (with punitive fines per infraction).

---

My goal with those spitballs is do decouple the H-1T and H-1B visas which largely work outside of tech. It clearly establishes who can work in that field. It tries to close loopholes (though I'm sure that there are some in there that I've missed) and tries to make sure that consultancies aren't trying to make a deep bench of people they pay part time or not at all. It's attempting to make sure that people are being compensated at market rates based on real data rather than more nebulous titles.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#622
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been told for 20 years that in 5 years my job is going to be offshored. If they could have they would have long ago. My theory: We had a crazy bubble of hiring during zero rate interest. We are living through a nasty correction. AI is moving the needle too, but it’s mostly being used as a scapegoat to save face and explain away cleaning up failed ZRIP yolo plans that didn’t pan out. We’ve also haven’t had a seri…

You're zooming out and considering this negative sentiment with similar times in the past. I think that's wise. I think we should keep zooming out to other industries. Imagine you're an engineer for GM in Detroit in the 70s - would you consider the mean to be your contemporary middle-class lifestyle, or what it is in 2025? Similar for steel and semiconductors. It goes for other places, too. Is the US's financial stre…

Let’s hypothetically say we’re all doomed. Say our jobs are going the way of manufacturing in the 70s-80s. What’s the play then?

If I was a new college grad I’d stay away from programming, but that’s been true for a while regardless of offshoring, the job market is just too soft until managers figure out they are killing their senior engineer pipeline and go back to investing in people.

What about the people already in industry? What’s our play?

Live under your means and save as much as possible? Already doing it.

Learn a new trade? Does not feel realistic while working a demanding full time job already, but if things get bad enough, sure.

Use the political apparatus to protect my employment? The system is built to prevent me from doing that. Fighting the system very well could put my employment at risk, which defeats the whole “get what I can while I still can” plan, if I assume doom and gloom on the horizon. I’m also unlikely to actually change anything by taking that risk, so the ROI is horrible.

Is there some other outcome or plan of action here I’m not seeing?

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re really just tired of news slowly morphing into Buzzfeed style clickbait, and this is our only outlet to complain about it. Other annoying headlines: “This is why interest rates are so high” “What I learned about X from one month doing Y”

I'm not seeing how this article is clickbait of any kind. Betteridge's Law really only works for articles that manufacture a provocative question out of nowhere to attract readership, and then have to sheepishly back down in the article body because obviously it's not true. But this article is formulated as a question because it has genuine speculation about the future that nobody is quite sure about. It has points f…

Did you read the article?

The author admits that the answer to his own question is no. Which, again, affirms Betteridge’s Law.

> A more plausible explanation for the present weak patch, and for companies’ reluctance to hire, is Trumpian uncertainty. That is now beginning to ease. The chaos of Mr Trump’s tariff roll-out seems to be receding. Deportations and changes to visa rules will remain disruptive, but businesses are starting to adapt. Although 2026 is unlikely to be a year of calm and clarity for America, it may well be a bit less frenzied. That would boost the labour market. American workers’ decade-long hot streak may have longer to run.

To paraphrase his conclusion: no. Things are soft, but in general, probably fine for 2026.

This is what I am saying - I’m sick of seeing sensational, clickbait, disaster-porn headlines, especially when the author timidly backs off and plays both sides once they have your attention. It’s such a lack of journalistic integrity.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#624

The author must have written the headline as a legitimate question to the audience because they certainly did not make much effort to answer it in the article.

Betteridge’s law! > Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.

In this case it was more of a "Meh, maybe." Which IMO is worse than Betteridge's Law.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#625
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constructive discussion on what we can do to fix this is welcome but open complaining isn’t going to change anything. It may be cathartic but it’s not productive. I’m not blaming anyone or saying it’s anyone’s failure. I’m simply saying the only thing you can control is you and so it’s up to you to master your habits and desires so that you can afford a future you want.

Constructive discussion on HN wont change anything either. Moreover, looking at the politics, claiming that constructive discussions is how things are achieved seems to simply not be true. It actually seems like cathartic complaining and making noise has massively better to achieve a change or being heard, practically. > ’m simply saying the only thing you can control is you and so it’s up to you to master your habit…

"It is just about hiding the reality creating vague feeling that people can control things. Even if they cant."

Still, people have agency. If one doesn't see it like that in relation to their material stance then there must be a lot of things that are simply disconsidered from the list of possible options, for whatever reason. Nobody said the world is fine as is and that the blame is somehow all on the ones that are in unsavory positions now. The world is not fine (and never was, for a lot of folks that almost nobody talkes about). It's winter time in this industry and the new hatchlings have their future in question. Yes, there are factors out of their control (like LLMs) that led to this winter, but there's also the colective decision for a lot of kids of pursuing these cushy well-paid office jobs that made things worse by oversaturating the market. Now, of course that, being saddled with student debt and heavily invested by an already acquired degree, to consider the long-term career prospects outside the industry seems like a non-starter, yet it may be exactly what the labor market (and younglings' individual well-being) needs. Such a decision is just of the same kind as the one that brought them here. That's agency on the individual level. And lastly, it's best for everyone to understand, internalize, and accept (the more the better) the fact that nobody else should be expected to step in and fix things for you. Yes, there are many people trying to make the world a better place (as there are many who don't care), there are also people in power that are even supposed to do the same, yet if they manage or not to make it better for you is not a given. That's, whenever it happens, just a bonus. The rest is up to you, the adult.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#626
post #79
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gotta tell you man, if you can find someone in charge at the backend of the Home Depot and let them hire you as a systems uptime troubleshooter you would easily make any salary you could name for them tenfold. I at at a Home Depot like 10 times a week and let me tell you, they have a major systems problem that is making their operations look like a joke

Home Depot is a chain, so the backend is probably being handled from some R&D center somewhere. Your maneuvering area at the local home depot is probably pretty slim.

I worked for Home Depot's Canadian division up until last year when they laid me off. They do everything in-house out of Atlanta for US operations.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No Jira If I was trying to attract intelligent applicants looking for work outside of software engineering, that would be in the headline.

Genuinely curious: How else would you coordinate a large software project? We have 7 teams of 5 working on the same platform and Jira is fine for what we're doing, but I've been at this almost two decades and I haven't used any of the alternatives.

How did they develop code before Jira?

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given rent, saving for house downpayment, student loan payments, auto loan payments, and possible childcare/healthcare costs, I don’t think we live in the same reality (based on income statistics). These things all come after savings, not before. If you can't afford them using post-saving money, then you need to get a better job, or a cheaper living conditions. Easier said than done, I totally agree, especially now…

They don’t want to hear it. They don’t understand because they haven’t hit middle aged with nothing. Experience is one hell of a teacher and I hope these young professionals realize what’s at stake. There’s no hand outs.

I hope they realize that they are probably going to have to take their fair share with violence because right now that is probably the only thing the wealthy class will listen to

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#629

I think there's something quite interesting (well to me anyway) where if you go by the internet, there is this bloodbath (slight exaggeration perhaps but feels like that) in jobs out in the US, UK, Aus and major European countries (the volume of anecdotes & complaints would suggest a significant downturn in employment) but out in the official data, and less so but still true in the real world, things are still bobbin…

The downturn of the economy, as a whole, is very real while simultaneously we are doing "just fine".

The "just fine" part is that our stock market is doing quite well, and those who are already wealthy greatly increased the velocity of their wealth. The flip side is that everything is too expensive, including labor, and we have to cut corners to make line go up. Most companies, by this point, have been more or less stripped for parts in pursuit of growth. Most are stagnating or experiencing negative growth now, because obviously, except a key few.

And those key few are pretty much holding everything together. Speculatively. Based off of the promise of growth without labor.

So, that's kind of where we're at right now.

Re: Is America's jobs market nearing a cliff?

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The data shows millennials as a whole are better off than boomers were at their age. Perhaps true if you go east far enough, seems objectively wrong for the majority of the west though. Honest question, if you think this and it isn't just rage bait.. what data supports it? Scott Galloway disagrees and offers hard data, and goes as far as calling it intergenerational theft. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8…

> Perhaps true if you go east far enough, seems objectively wrong for the majority of the west though. Much of the (American) millennials generation believes a story that they’re worse off. I feel it is a convenient story for people to tell themselves and blame someone else for their perceived losses. But I pulled up several articles supporting my claim with a quick search, even though the opposite narrative is more…

I think the average homeowner age is what, 59 now?
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