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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#621

Post by corimaith »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #596
corimaith wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Adam Smith, and it's been a ruse since then too. Read him. You should read Keynes as the primary opposing side to US during Bretton Woods, with strong support from most bankers at the time. The WTO has no answer to structural imbalances nor was ever intended to resolve such a matter. The status quo you support is not grounded in economic literature than it is a incoherent mess that was created through political circ…

> Under a truly multilateral system of the ICU, China would have been severely disciplined years ago for its distortionary surplus actions. Don't blame China for this, they provided what they were asked to provide, blame those who "failed to discipline them years ago". Go to the beginning of this thread where I pointed out who tried to stop the trend. > The status quo you support is not grounded in economic literatur…

>Don't blame China for this, they provided what they were asked to provide, blame those who "failed to discipline them years ago"

The fact that you are referencing "they" means you don't actually know how the ICU and the Bancor works do you? Or any of Keynes' larger arguments regarding global macroeconomic stability.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#622

Post by tracker1 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #599
tracker1 wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit surprised by this move as well... If only someone had done similar to protect the gutting of Sears and K-Mart, even if both companies made several years of bad decisions themselves, the way they were cleaned out is disgusting.

America voted for Ronald Reagan in the biggest landslide victory the US had seen in a very long time. Reagan promised "deregulation" and "get government out of business" etc, and had a very clear mandate to execute, which he did, IMO to our detriment, by doing things like telling the FTC to just let companies do whatever, and outright not enforce anti-competitive laws if you couldn't show "consumer harm", which expli…

Reagan was out of office by three decades when Sears finally collapsed, and 16 of those interim years was with a Democrat in office, and Democrat control of both houses for several of those years.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#624

Post by kelipso »

markus_zhang wrote: post #269
fwipsy wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could just add easily argue that the Dutch government has immense leverage over the US, since ASML controls the leading edge fab technology that underpins Nvidia etc. It seems more to me like a highly profitable partnership that neither side can credibly threaten to withdraw from.

Although without any proof, but the Cold War history convinces me that US usually has the better hands when dealing with EU. US has the bigger and better sticks.

Only with America can EU defend itself against a potential invasion from Russia. No comment on whether it will ever happen but there is no better hand than that.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#625

Post by sparkie »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #560
motorest wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> although they had to find a partner to do Azure. By "finding a partner" you actually mean have Azure-branded services provided by Chinese companies through isolated data centers. Which kind of proves OPs point.

Microsoft operated in China for more than a decade before azure was a thing. A lot of companies did, Microsoft is just the one I’m familiar with.

Almost everyone in China pirated Windows and Office. Microsoft were unable to do anything about it, and gave up trying.

Western companies have virtually no IP in China. It gets stolen and IP rights are not enforcible - western companies basically cannot sue Chinese companies. Chinese companies can enforce their IP against western companies, who have to surrender theirs to access the Chinese market. The system is completely rigged in China's favour.

The only way to level that playing field is for western nations to do the same: Let their domestic companies freely steal Chinese IP and selectively enforce IP rights, as China does.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#626

Post by amazingman »

throw73949558 wrote: post #606
jacquesm wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is interesting here is that for obvious reasons the Chinese do not seem to understand - or be able to understand - that NL actually has an independent institute for handling such disputes that will operate with a fairly high degree of impartiality. Abusing funds of one company and jeopardizing its existence in order to prop up a non-related entity abroad is precisely the kind of situation why we have this instit…

They needed wafers for 70 million, were going to order for 200 million. 3x more is hardly "funneling large amounts of money". I would call that typical way to run business, perhaps they were making supplies for next three years, before tariffs kick in... Perhaps they were going to expand.

Do you really think sockpuppet astroturfing is going to work when you created the account today?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#627

Post by sparkie »

croes wrote: post #442
motorest wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We‘ll see how rare and isolated this is will be. Why do you presume this is bad?

If it’s not bad why calling out China first doing it? If it’s bad why doing it?

When you realize the game is completely rigged, you have to stop playing it.

We would like for western companies to be able to operate in China the way we let Chinese companies operate in our nations, but since China don't want to reciprocate and want to play an unfair game, the only real option is to level the playing field - if China wants to make the rules, lets take those rules and apply them domestically to. We should:

* Require Chinese companies to have a domestic partner.

* Selectively enforce (or rather ignore) IP when infringing on Chinese IP.

* Force IP transfer as a condition to access our markets.

* Require Chinese visitors to tell the police where they're living.

* Many more policies which are unfavourable to the Chinese.

China, chief hypocrite, will of course complain about anything which discriminates against China abroad, while doing exactly that thing at home.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#628

Post by dgfitz »

dylan604 wrote: post #221
dgfitz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Uneducated conclusions like seeing 70-80% being imported means losing access to the exporters would be devastating? Seeing those numbers shows exactly how far away the US is from being self reliant? See how it means that the US is in a weak negotiating position, and that any bolstering from the orange man is pure bullshit? Please, enlighten me where these uneducated conclusions are wrong.

Quote your numbers.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#629

Post by skinnymuch »

array_key_first wrote: post #518
skinnymuch wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is communist. Interesting how often outsiders are so sure a country led by the CPC isn’t Marxist.

China isn't communist because they have many free markets sectors of their economy and many private institutions. People just don't know what communism is. Calling yourself the communist party doesn't magically make you communist. You have to do communism, which they no longer do. It's a very simple test. Can I own assets, such as a factory? If the answer is yes, you're not communist. China isn't communist.

Having your mode of production focus on people and not profit. Having a dictatorship of the proletariat is the most important thing.

The end of private property is an eventual goal but it’s not close to the primary issue in 2025. The actual fight is against imperialists and global capitalists. Private property can be a tool in that fight. Being revisionist like China still makes you a communist/Marxist.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#630

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

benjiro wrote: post #618
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IP sharing issue has been massively overblown. IP sharing was relatively limited. The European and American car manufacturers, for example, never lost their considerable competitive edge over their Chinese rivals. In the end, it was an entirely different technology - electric cars - that allowed the Chinese to leap-frog the legacy car manufacturers, and not because of IP sharing, but because of Chinese R&D in bat…

I really do not want to respond to this but your information is so wrong, and clearly off. Foreign investment was already in a down trend from 2013, investment kept somewhat stable in the 2015-2019 periode. Until a little unknown virus hit the world, resulting in a total shutdown / disrupted market. There was a peak in 2021 as of the resulting reopening of the Chinese market, you know, kind of hard to do business whe…

> Foreign investment was already in a down trend from 2013, investment kept somewhat stable in the 2015-2019 periode. Until a little unknown virus hit the world, resulting in a total shutdown / disrupted market. [...] I do not even know where you get the peak in 2022 when it was 2021.

You're just wrong about this, as you can see by looking at a chart of FDI into China: [0]. The story from 2013 to now is not "downward trend." 2013 was a peak year. Then FDI declined through 2017, before generally increasing until 2021, when it reached its all-time peak. You're right that I got the year wrong: the peak was in 2021, not 2022. But the story you've told of there being a steady decline since 2013, due to foreign companies not wanting to share IP, is just completely disproven by the chart. It also doesn't make sense based on how Chinese IP sharing policies have changed over time - they have been rolled back in the last decade, not increased.

There have been huge changes in the world economic outlook and in financial policy since 2022. The US ended the zero-interest-rate policy in 2022, which has huge implications for global monetary flows.

> No offense but your comments read like a propagandist. I let the readers make up their minds, as my information can be easily google on.

Yes, readers can Google it (or look at the World Bank data below) and see that the story you're telling is just plain wrong. People in the US are exposed to such a crazy level of constant fear mongering about China that any kind of moderating comments are seen as propaganda.

0. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.KLT.DINV.CD.WD?locat...

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