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GPT-5

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Re: GPT-5

#621

That SWE-bench chart with the mismatched bars (52.8% somehow appearing larger than 69.1%) was emblematic of the entire presentation - rushed and underwhelming. It's the kind of error that would get flagged in any internal review, yet here it is in a billion-dollar product launch. Combined with the Bernoulli effect demo confidently explaining how airplane wings work incorrectly (the equal transit time fallacy that NAS…

GPT-5 had to be released, in any form. This announcement was not the product of a breakthrough, but the consequence of a business requirement.

Re: GPT-5

#622

Going by the system card at: https://openai.com/index/gpt-5-system-card/ > GPT‑5 is a unified system . . . OK > . . . with a smart and fast model that answers most questions, a deeper reasoning model for harder problems, and a real-time router that quickly decides which model to use based on conversation type, complexity, tool needs, and explicit intent (for example, if you say “think hard about this” in the prompt).…

>This looks like they're not training the single big model but instead have gone off to develop special sub models and attempt to gloss over them with yet another model. That's what you resort to only when doing the end-to-end training has become too expensive for you.

The corollary to the bitter lesson strikes again: any hand crafted system will out perform any general system for the same budget by a wide margin.

Re: GPT-5

#623

Going by the system card at: https://openai.com/index/gpt-5-system-card/ > GPT‑5 is a unified system . . . OK > . . . with a smart and fast model that answers most questions, a deeper reasoning model for harder problems, and a real-time router that quickly decides which model to use based on conversation type, complexity, tool needs, and explicit intent (for example, if you say “think hard about this” in the prompt).…

This is a precursor to a future model which isn't simply a router.

From the system card:

"In the near future, we plan to integrate these capabilities into a single model."

Re: GPT-5

#624
post #563

GPT-5 just dropped for my ChatGPT Plus. Two concerning things: - thinking/non-thinking is still not really unified, you can chose and the non-thinking version still doesn't start thinking on tasks that could obviously get better results with thinking - all the older models are gone! No 4o, 4.1, 4.5, o3 available anymore

they mentioned the older models are deprecated. Still available via API for now.

Re: GPT-5

#625

It is frequently suggested that once one of the AI companies reaches an AGI threshold, they will take off ahead of the rest. It's interesting to note that at least so far, the trend has been the opposite: as time goes on and the models get better, the performance of the different company's gets clustered closer together. Right now GPT-5, Claude Opus, Grok 4, Gemini 2.5 Pro all seem quite good across the board (ie the…

> as time goes on and the models get better, the performance of the different company's gets clustered closer together

This could be partly due to normative isomorphism[1] according to the institutional theory. There is also a lot of movement of the same folks between these companies.

[1] https://youtu.be/VvaAnva109s

Re: GPT-5

#626

GPT-5 knowledge cutoff: Sep 30, 2024 (10 months before release). Compare that to Gemini 2.5 Pro knowledge cutoff: Jan 2025 (3 months before release) Claude Opus 4.1: knowledge cutoff: Mar 2025 (4 months before release) https://platform.openai.com/docs/models/compare https://deepmind.google/models/gemini/pro/ https://docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/about-claude/models/overv...

with web search, is knowledge cutoff really relevant anymore? Or is this more of a comment on how long it took them to do post-training?

The problem, perhaps illusory that it's easy to fix, is that the model will choose solutions that are a year old, e.g. thinking database/logger versions from December '24 are new and usable in a greenfield project despite newer quarterly LTS releases superseding them. I try to avoid humanizing these models, but could it be that in training/posttraining one could make it so the timestamp is fed in via the system prompt and actually respected? I've begged models to choose "new" dependencies after $DATE but they all still snap back to 2024

Re: GPT-5

#627
post #623

Going by the system card at: https://openai.com/index/gpt-5-system-card/ > GPT‑5 is a unified system . . . OK > . . . with a smart and fast model that answers most questions, a deeper reasoning model for harder problems, and a real-time router that quickly decides which model to use based on conversation type, complexity, tool needs, and explicit intent (for example, if you say “think hard about this” in the prompt).…

This is a precursor to a future model which isn't simply a router. From the system card: "In the near future, we plan to integrate these capabilities into a single model."

Anyone who still takes predictive statements from leadership at AI companies as anything other than meaningless noise isn't even trying.

Re: GPT-5

#628

It is frequently suggested that once one of the AI companies reaches an AGI threshold, they will take off ahead of the rest. It's interesting to note that at least so far, the trend has been the opposite: as time goes on and the models get better, the performance of the different company's gets clustered closer together. Right now GPT-5, Claude Opus, Grok 4, Gemini 2.5 Pro all seem quite good across the board (ie the…

It's also worth considering that past some threshold, it may be very difficult for us as users to discern which model is better. I don't think thats what's going on here, but we should be ready for it. For example, if you are an ELO 1000 chess player would you yourself be able to tell if Magnus Carlson or another grandmaster were better by playing them individually? To the extent that our AGI/SI metrics are based on human judgement the cluster effect that they create may be an illusion.

Re: GPT-5

#629

In terms of raw prose quality, I'm not convinced GPT-5 sounds "less like AI" or "more like a friend". Just count the number of em-dashes. It's become something of a LLM shibboleth.

No complex benchmarks, no friendliness tests — just look for the sentence like this one
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