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FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

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Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#621

Post by vel0city »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #588
vel0city wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people do, I agree! I'm not trying to paint it as everyone living there does have an hour commute, it's true many don't. But yeah, go work a job in Addison, Las Colinas, deep in Plano, etc. You'll find a lot of coworkers living in Farmersville, Prosper, Melissa, etc. > Their reasoning was home affordability, home value growth, and school quality This is yet another set of data points showing what I'm talking abo…

> These people live there because it was cheap when they bought it, they expect the metroplex to keep growing increasing the value of their eventually "closer in" home from where the outskirts will be in a decade, and schools are better than other places they might have afforded to buy. Am I wrong I think you are wrong, yes Could be I'm the one who is wrong, but I don't think most people buy homes with this sort of s…

The person I replied to used the phrase "home value growth" in relation to a rapidly developing town.

Definitely anecdotal, but I know of several families which decided to move to certain areas which were rapidly developing at the time based on the projected value growth from the planned new developments. For example, lots of people I know moved from Dallas/Plano/Richardson area to Frisco during the explosive growth of Frisco to get in on that rapid development growth, buy a house cheap today in seemingly the middle of nowhere which will become a massively developed area in the next 10 years, sell the house and move to Prosper where the same will happen, on and on until I guess we hit Oklahoma. I know people who moved to The Colony when the rumors of the Grandscape development started and talk of Toyota moving to the area, expecting home values to rise.

I'm sure people living in places where development is a lot more static probably don't buy with these ideas in mind. But from what I've seen again in again in DFW and Houston and Austin and San Antonio it seems to be a pretty common mindset.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#622

Post by danans »

9rx wrote: post #607
danans wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can really find no noticeable difference in the way of life other than everything I do outside of the home is a lot easier to access now Yes, small walkable towns are nice. I personally prefer them to unwalkable suburbs by a long shot. But plenty of people reasonably find the balance of their preferences is better met by suburbs. And as suburbs densify into towns themselves, people might reasonably want to upgrad…

> But plenty of people reasonably find the balance of their preferences is better met by suburbs. Obviously. They wouldn't be there otherwise. But the question was: Why? (Or maybe better asked, given your phrasing, as what or how?) The discussion seeks to understand what that balance is.

> The discussion seeks to understand what that balance is.

In the suburbs people generally seek more space, privacy, and security, while still having relatively easy access to opportunities.

It sounds like you (like me) have found our personal balance elsewhere.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#623

Post by vel0city »

9rx wrote: post #620
vel0city wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if your discussions aren't even based in reality, what are we even really talking about? For example: > As a result, people are much more likely to be without work in cities, as seen in the data. This is a demonstrably untrue statement. In the US, labor participation rates are lower in rural areas. Unemployment is generally higher in rural areas. Poverty rates are generally higher in rural areas. I'd link the dat…

> what are we even really talking about? Our thoughts, ideas. > This is a demonstrably untrue statement. My thoughts disagree, but that was said with respect to my country, not the US, so whether or not you are right, the US data is not indicative of that. While I do understand I wasn't fully clear in expressing my thoughts there, what is fascinating is that you jumped into assuming that I meant the US instead of ask…

You're wondering why Americans make the housing decisions they do but then use assumptions which aren't based on the realities Americans live in and berate those who actually try and show your assumptions aren't valid in describing why those Americans are making the choices they make in America.

You were wondering:

> Yes, but why would anyone want to live on what is effectively a farm, but without the benefit of separation from other people or land (read: income) that a farm offers?

> I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I question why people are doing it.

I gave lots of data and analysis as to why Americans seem to make this choice. You berated me for giving an actual analysis, gave conjectures not grounded in reality for those people making these choices explaining why my analysis is wrong, and continued to wonder why people would make these choices. Your conjectures weren't valid for the people in question. They weren't based in their reality. But you seem to not want to actually engage in the reality of it.

> Colloquially, what we call the place you are looking for is "school".

People can learn new things and be corrected on their false preconceptions without necessarily being in a school building with a teacher.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#624

Post by 9rx »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #618
9rx wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and "being far from amenities and city life" They close the distance gap, but thanks to poor civil design often (yes, there are exceptions, always) they don't close the time gap. I don't suppose it is being able to see a mostly occluded, hazy silhouette of the downtown skyscrapers is the appeal there. Surely this is about minimizing travel time? A family member once lived in the suburbs of a large city. I live 50 m…

> they don't close the time gap During peak hours maybe, or in very poorly designed or overcrowded cities, but ultimately if everyone is using the same roads then you will eventually sit in the same traffic if you're trying to get to the same places? Travel time might not be that much longer but it will be longer > It would be fascinating to hear from those who gave all three types of places a fair shake and still se…

> but ultimately if everyone is using the same roads then you will eventually sit in the same traffic if you're trying to get to the same places?

Once you get to the arterial roads that take the traffic to the amenities that's true, but it is often slow going just to get that far.

Fair to say that is less true if you are on the edge of the suburbs, but, for the sake of this discussion, are you really living in the suburbs if you are right beside the action? I think that goes against the premise presented in the beginning.

> my family moved to the countryside in my teens

Not to diminish or dismiss your experience, but can a teenager really give something like that a fair shake? Like you indicate, you ended up there because your family brought you there, not because you chose to go there to make your own life. Typically, teenagers have limited autonomy and really can't experience it for what it is. You had an experience, but don't you think it would be an entirely different experience if you moved to the countryside now when you can fully shape the experience into being what you want it to be, not what your parents (or equivalent) wanted it to be?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#625

Post by 9rx »

vel0city wrote: post #623
9rx wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what are we even really talking about? Our thoughts, ideas. > This is a demonstrably untrue statement. My thoughts disagree, but that was said with respect to my country, not the US, so whether or not you are right, the US data is not indicative of that. While I do understand I wasn't fully clear in expressing my thoughts there, what is fascinating is that you jumped into assuming that I meant the US instead of ask…

You're wondering why Americans make the housing decisions they do but then use assumptions which aren't based on the realities Americans live in and berate those who actually try and show your assumptions aren't valid in describing why those Americans are making the choices they make in America. You were wondering: > Yes, but why would anyone want to live on what is effectively a farm, but without the benefit of sepa…

> You're wondering why Americans make the housing decisions they do

I wondered what the thoughts about why people make the housing decisions they do were. My country is within America, as it happens, so I suppose if it were to be limited to America that would be all well and good, but it wouldn't have been a detail of any significance.

> You berated me for giving an actual analysis

I engaged in your analysis to see if I can understand if you were confusing opportunity with number of jobs. I don't think we ever gained that understanding, and eventually we just moved on as it was clear that the only thoughts present were about the concept of data itself, which was well outside of the topic at hand and not producing anything of interest to latch onto.

If your thinking sees that as a berating: Fascinating. Can we dive deeper into your thought process there?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#626

Post by vel0city »

9rx wrote: post #625
vel0city wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wondering why Americans make the housing decisions they do but then use assumptions which aren't based on the realities Americans live in and berate those who actually try and show your assumptions aren't valid in describing why those Americans are making the choices they make in America. You were wondering: > Yes, but why would anyone want to live on what is effectively a farm, but without the benefit of sepa…

> You're wondering why Americans make the housing decisions they do I wondered what the thoughts about why people make the housing decisions they do were. My country is within America, as it happens, so I suppose if it were to be limited to America that would be all well and good, but it wouldn't have been a detail of any significance. > You berated me for giving an actual analysis I engaged in your analysis to see i…

I think to most people being called a dog is berating. Saying things like "that's all that your limited thought is able to offer" is berating.

> I engaged in your analysis to see if I can understand if you were confusing opportunity with number of jobs

It sure seems more like you engaged with the analysis to say I'm wrong about objectively factual things and called me a dog when I provided sources.

> I wondered what the thoughts about why people make the housing decisions they do were

You're wondering why people make the housing decisions they do but unwilling to actually engage in looking at the actual data of job opportunities, home values, etc. that might actually give you insights into it, from what I can tell. Because, who gives a rat's ass about the data to answer our questions when assumptions and conjectures will do. Obviously, the answer is because these houses in the exurbs are more likely to be tan and people just love the color tan for their home. We don't need to actually look at any information to see if this is true or not, we'll just discuss as if this is truth. Are the houses more likely to be tan? Do people even prefer tan houses? Who cares.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#627

Post by ndriscoll »

9rx wrote: post #598
ndriscoll wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attitudes around education in the US vary wildly across the population. To a first approximation, "good schools" are really "good students" (i.e. "good peers"), which generally means that the families within the school's catchment area place higher value on education, which generally correlates with class. There are feedback mechanisms at play here: the people who want a good education for their kids want to be aroun…

> Attitudes around education in the US vary wildly across the population. Is that in some way unique to the US? I would say the same is true here. Certainly when talking to people out on the street, there are clearly some who value schooling to the utmost degree while others dismiss it entirely. I expect this is the case anywhere a sizeable population is found. > the people who want a good education for their kids wa…

I don't expect it's unique to the US, but I can't speak for other areas. At least any time I've looked, real estate prices for the same floorplan home a couple neighborhoods over in a different school area can differ by a couple hundred thousand dollars, and "good schools" are a common thing for people to say they prioritize, so the effect seems real enough here. I've seen this in multiple cities/states.

Like I said, to a first approximation, "good schools" are much more about the kids and families than the teachers. Teachers in the US are required to have bachelors degrees, and I believe AP teachers need masters, so there's some bar (though I don't find degrees/credentialism to be particularly compelling). Good schools are where the students set good examples for each other and drive each other to do better. Bad schools are where you're automatically in the top half of your class merely for showing up and no peers treat education seriously, so you learn not to either. There's plenty of passable schools too where you can get an adequate education, but middle class and above tend to have higher expectations for their kids, and want all of their kids' friends to have the attitude that working hard in school is completely normal and expected (i.e. they want a "good school").

Schools in bad areas do have retention problems, and the government offers incentives to teach there, but teachers aren't miracle workers.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#628

Post by 9rx »

danans wrote: post #622
9rx wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But plenty of people reasonably find the balance of their preferences is better met by suburbs. Obviously. They wouldn't be there otherwise. But the question was: Why? (Or maybe better asked, given your phrasing, as what or how?) The discussion seeks to understand what that balance is.

> The discussion seeks to understand what that balance is. In the suburbs people generally seek more space, privacy, and security, while still having relatively easy access to opportunities. It sounds like you (like me) have found our personal balance elsewhere.

> while still having relatively easy access to opportunities.

Trouble is that this discussion stems from comments about how those in the suburbs can't afford the cost of transportation. Is there really opportunity if you can't afford it? Other thread branches seem to agree that those comments were made up bullshit, so that adds complexity, but we aren't really serving the intent of the discussion if we deviate from the idea (even if fake).

> It sounds like you (like me) have found our personal balance elsewhere.

Now, if only I could convince the rest of my family! I have no qualms in admitting that I am where I am because I have chosen to prioritize certain people in my life. I don't much care for the civil side of things.

I have asked a lot of people the same question and not a single other one has said that they didn't actually want to be there on the basis of what the community type offers. I find it quite interesting that I stand alone. Makes one wonder if I actually stand alone, or if others are just putting on a pretty face? Post-purchase rationalization is a hell of a drug.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#629

Post by 9rx »

vel0city wrote: post #626
9rx wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're wondering why Americans make the housing decisions they do I wondered what the thoughts about why people make the housing decisions they do were. My country is within America, as it happens, so I suppose if it were to be limited to America that would be all well and good, but it wouldn't have been a detail of any significance. > You berated me for giving an actual analysis I engaged in your analysis to see i…

I think to most people being called a dog is berating. Saying things like "that's all that your limited thought is able to offer" is berating. > I engaged in your analysis to see if I can understand if you were confusing opportunity with number of jobs It sure seems more like you engaged with the analysis to say I'm wrong about objectively factual things and called me a dog when I provided sources. > I wondered what…

> Saying things like "that's all that your limited thought is able to offer" is berating.

How so? What are you thinking?

Additionally, it is interesting that you left out the "if". What was the thought process there?

> called me a dog when I provided sources.

I likened you to a dog wanting to pointlessly please its master. Call it berating if you will, but that is the behavior I see dogs exhibit and that is the behavior I observed here. I'm sure you have data to contradict my understanding, but to the extent of the understanding I have, that is simply a factual account.

> You're wondering why people make the housing decisions they do

I asked what others thought about it.

> but unwilling to actually engage in looking at the actual data of job opportunities, home values, etc.

This wouldn't indicate what others thought about it. There is a place for looking at the data, but that would happen independently and wouldn't carry into a discussion. Different tools for different jobs.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#630

Post by andelink »

blackqueeriroh wrote: post #599
andelink wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not. Everyone hid things from their parents. I hid soooo much from my parents. It’s fine. It’s normal. It’s far more important to have limited exposure to modern smart phones.

The people who say things like this inevitably are the ones who spend ten minutes with a therapist and the therapist’s eyes go wide

What, exactly, is so problematic about not telling your parents that you smoke weed with your friends before playing video games? What, exactly, is so problematic about not telling your parents who are dangerously religious, that you had sex with your high school girlfriend? These are all normal, innocuous activities of teenagers. A therapist would not think twice about hearing them.
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