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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#621

Post by ethbr1 »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #592
pessimist wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that when elections are fought on the basis of identity (race, religion) etc corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I witnessed this up close in India where parties openly exist to benefit certain constituencies based on caste, language, religion and so on. It is horrifying to see this attitude take root in my a…

> It turns out that when elections are fought on the basis of identity (race, religion) etc corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. In history textbooks, it's known as the spoils system.

For those unaware of ~1900 US political history and how the spoils system was dismantled through political will: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service_reform_in_the_...

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#622

Post by CjHuber »

x0WoobRi wrote: post #620
iamleppert wrote: post #611

What do we even need to be sending people into space for? It seems like a lot of savings could be had if we just completely shut down the entire manned space program. Unless there is some direct business case for it, why do it at all? Don't tell me some vague definition of "science". This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point. There needs to be a direct benefit to the america…

> This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point This is where I started to think this was trolling and that it would soon devolve into overly satirical commentary to prove the opposite point. I was surprised it didn't do this. I'm very interested in this defeatist mentality, welp we know it's impractical we should stop trying. It's not only ignoring the advancements that manned…

To me it sounds like more like hyperbolic pragmatism than defeatism.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#623

Post by username223 »

willhslade wrote: post #315
steveBK123 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Elon thought he was buying the presidency in exchange for favors, he wasn't thinking things through. This is the funniest part to me, in the context of THIS president. The guy that demands fully loyalty but gives none? I can't imagine being the richest guy in the world, and embarrassing myself to such a degree all for.. what? He paid maybe $300M to help elect the guy, wore all the stupid hates, lavished orange m…

Didn't Musk dismantle the federal agencies that were investigating and suing his companies?

Well... Sure, he got Starlink approved for rural broadband funding and ended some NTSB investigations into Tesla's "suicide mode." But those things can be reversed with a quickness if he's no longer on Trump's side.

He also wrecked a lot more of the federal government that doesn't affect him one way or the other, and may have harvested a ton of data for his AI company. We'll see if anything comes of that.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#624

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

iamleppert wrote: post #619
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you unfamiliar with the many world-changing technologies and inventions that have come about because of the needs and drivers of the human space program? On what basis do you form the belief that we would not continue to develop and benefit from new world-changing innovations despite all historical evidence that says otherwise? A huge amount of scientific invention is made incidentally to another goal. It's inten…

I was waiting for this comment! What innovations have come about in the last 20 years of the human space program? Everyone always makes this claim but never can name a single one, or brings up unrelated things like the heat tiles on the space shuttle. What kinds of developments could not have been done with autonomous payloads?

> What kinds of developments could not have been done with autonomous payloads?

This is very much the wrong question to ask. The question isn't whether something can be done with different payloads. The question is whether something would have been done if not for the drive to send people into constrained environments. Closed loop osmotic water filtration systems would not be so developed without the driving motivation of sustaining life in a box. Sending payloads at all is actually extremely tangential except insofar as if you officially terminate the actual sending of people then the motivation to develop technologies that make it easier to send people vanishes.

It's not super clear from your wording, but it sounds kinda like you want to hear about research within the past 20 years that has made it to already being commercialized, but that would be ignoring the fact that taking decades for research and development done for human spaceflight to get applied to other uses, which it often does, doesn't negate the facts that it often does take longer than that for ventures to reach the public and that the research and development was done for human spaceflight. It seems unlikely that you're looking for older developments that have only been commercialized recently, though I can point you to several, and developments done more recently but not yet commercialized for other uses have no success record yet. It makes your request sound a bit disingenuous.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#625

Post by bigyabai »

anon291 wrote: post #447

To be clear, the biden-musk dispute included threats to Tesla. The entire thing is insane. Musk has done more for America than either of the last two presidents.

Nooooo! Not muh heckin' Tesla stonks!

It's just such a shame that Elon was pressured into this messy politics stuff. After all, he could have just stayed in his own lane, kept his nose clean, made value for shareholders and saved America along the way. It was so easy! Hell, he could have just become president himself with his spotless track record of administrative accomplishment. Who wouldn't vote for him?

Now look at the poor guy. Burned his bridges with the liberals when he bought Twitter, harassed queer people and reneged his environmental commitments. Now the bridge to modern conservatism is on fire, because gasp the Republicans won't agree on making a smaller, less-capable government! Those filthy backstabbers, how was Elon supposed to know he was fraternizing with frauds, socialists and sex pests?

It's... it's discrimination. Don't they know Elon is on the autism spectrum, how are they getting away with this harassment? H-hey, why are you guys walking away - this is important! America's future is on the line, here!

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#626

Post by bigyabai »

x0WoobRi wrote: post #620
iamleppert wrote: post #611

What do we even need to be sending people into space for? It seems like a lot of savings could be had if we just completely shut down the entire manned space program. Unless there is some direct business case for it, why do it at all? Don't tell me some vague definition of "science". This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point. There needs to be a direct benefit to the america…

> This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point This is where I started to think this was trolling and that it would soon devolve into overly satirical commentary to prove the opposite point. I was surprised it didn't do this. I'm very interested in this defeatist mentality, welp we know it's impractical we should stop trying. It's not only ignoring the advancements that manned…

> but this overestimates how much humans know especially with respect to space

Does it? We can't know how many secrets there are out there, maybe there's infinite and maybe there's nothing. It's hard for us to know the opportunity cost until we understand what we're bartering for.

Like, humanity could pool their resources to comprehensively explore the Mariana Trench if we wanted. That's fairly unknown, entirely feasible, and could yield scientific advancement. But it's also expensive, and doesn't guarantee any lucrative returns for us. Maybe there's gold deposits at the bottom of the floor, maybe it's all silt and sand. Maybe we harvest the gold, and discover that humanity has upset a delicate balance that has only survived by us ignoring it.

Iunno, if I was an alien civilization somewhere, I'd be praying to whatever higher powers exist to ensure humanity stays far, far away from me.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#627

Post by modzu »

steveBK123 wrote: post #34
username223 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually this comes towards the end of a dictatorship. It doesn't seem that way to me, e.g. Putin arrested Khodorkovsky (the richest man in Russia) in 2003. The way I see it, the politician needs the oligarch's money to gain political power, but then he has actual state power, including guns and the judicial system. At that point the oligarch has no purpose -- after all, the politician can just make new ones -- so i…

> If Elon thought he was buying the presidency in exchange for favors, he wasn't thinking things through. This is the funniest part to me, in the context of THIS president. The guy that demands fully loyalty but gives none? I can't imagine being the richest guy in the world, and embarrassing myself to such a degree all for.. what? He paid maybe $300M to help elect the guy, wore all the stupid hates, lavished orange m…

maybe he wanted a ticket to the island, maybe he got it

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#628

Post by [deleted] »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #42

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

[deleted]

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#629

Post by anon291 »

bigyabai wrote: post #625
anon291 wrote: post #447

To be clear, the biden-musk dispute included threats to Tesla. The entire thing is insane. Musk has done more for America than either of the last two presidents.

Nooooo! Not muh heckin' Tesla stonks! It's just such a shame that Elon was pressured into this messy politics stuff. After all, he could have just stayed in his own lane, kept his nose clean, made value for shareholders and saved America along the way. It was so easy! Hell, he could have just become president himself with his spotless track record of administrative accomplishment. Who wouldn't vote for him? Now look…

I don't care about Musk personally but if you think Trump's threat is the first direct named threat against his company by a politician, I think you are off your rocker

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#630

Post by Veedrac »

iamleppert wrote: post #611

What do we even need to be sending people into space for? It seems like a lot of savings could be had if we just completely shut down the entire manned space program. Unless there is some direct business case for it, why do it at all? Don't tell me some vague definition of "science". This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point. There needs to be a direct benefit to the america…

Most of the benefits of manned space exploration are fake, yes. The incentives of the people doing it though aren't to be honest about it. NASA talks about how critical a constant human presence on the ISS is for ‘science’; never once have I heard them even try to justify $100B spend as more than a keyword.

There are a few real things a manned space program does: showing force in rocket technologies, serving as inspiration in STEM fields, and taking an early step to humans flourishing throughout the universe. There are also real but bad reasons, like NASA bloat is seen as a way to buy voters.

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