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The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

blogs.windows.com

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Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#621

Post by notpushkin »

anon291 wrote: post #548
juancn wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically it's not a VM, it's a subsystem, the same way Win32, Win64, Posix, OS/2, etc. are. It's a feature of the NT-family of kernels where you can create many environments sharing the same underlying executive and HAL. It's a quite interesting way to build an OS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Windows_NT

I mean... WINE does the same on windows, but microsoft refuses to release their API docs for all internal APIs. They release WSL by relying on Linux's open-ness, while refusing the same for themselves.

Then they discontinue WSL1 and just do a VM instead because... reasons. I really don’t understand how MSFT works on the inside.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#622

Post by rizalp »

varbhat wrote: post #479

Cool! Now make Microsoft Office Open Source! I understand you won't,so atleast release the Linux versions of them!

That would not be a sound strategy. Microsoft choose to make a OS a commodity, but not services and platforms, as part of the strategy to commoditize the complements like developer tooling

Commoditize your complements: https://gwern.net/complement

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#623

Post by rizalp »

stopthe wrote: post #344

A lot of people here are saying nice things about having dev environment on WSL. Honest question: how do you deal with with those minor but insufferable Windows' quirks like 0d0a line endings, selective Unicode support, byte-order-marks and so on. While right now I enjoy the privilege to develop on Linux, things may change.

For me, I just accepts the quirks and move on with other things in life.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#624

Post by CoolCold »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #92

I've been using WSL on and off for Linux development for the last few years. When it works, it's great! When it doesn't....oh man it sucks. It has been non-stop networking and VPN problems, XServer issues, window scaling issues, hardware accelerated graphics not working, etc. this whole time. I've spent more time trying to fix WSL issues then actually developing software. It's never gotten better. It's fast. It's pow…

I've tried WSLg for couple of times and all I run was something like xclock to ensure it works. I literally have 0 interest in running GUI Linux apps, so for me it all smooth sailing.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#625

Post by CoolCold »

tryauuum wrote: post #557
palata wrote: post #490

Not a Windows user, but I think WSL is great. I see a lot of Windows user criticising Linux for... essentially not looking like Windows. "Linux Desktop will never reach mass adoption unless it [something that boils down to 'looks more like Windows']". The thing is: I consider myself a real Linux user, and I don't want it to look like Windows. And I hate it when Windows people try to push Linux there, just because the…

Not a Windows user, but I hate WSL. Looks like microsoft realizing they will lose a generation of developers to linux so they implemented linux inside their OS. Now people won't see the joys of recompiling kernel :)

I've stopped seeing joys of recompiling kernel [and consequence reboots of servers which easily could take 10 minutes and that's without IPMI /KVM] since 2009-2010

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#626

Post by notpushkin »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #586
palata wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You get the best of both worlds with WSL. You obviously don't. Maybe WSL is the best compromise for people who need both Windows and Linux. But it's ridiculous to think that WSL is better than just Linux for people who don't need Windows at all . And that's kind of what the author of this thread seems to imply.

I think that case could be made. For example for people who have a laptop that is not well supported by linux. With WSL they get linux and can use all of their hardware.

If it’s impossible to massage Linux into working well with your laptop – sure. But you’re missing out so much, like, well, not having to deal with Windows.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#627

Post by rizalp »

dataflow wrote: post #346

Anybody know what the deal is with neither Oracle nor Microsoft trying to make it possible for VirtualBox and WSL2 to coexist without severe performance impact? What the heck is the issue that neither side knows how to solve? Or is there a deliberate business decision not to solve it?

It's because WSL2 is using HyperV behind the scenes, and HyperV is a Type 1 (Native Hypervisor), running directly on top of hardware.

When you activate it, it also makes you host windows OS virtualized as well, albeit with native access for some components like GPU etc.

That's why all other Windows Hypervisor (Virtualbox, VMWare Workstation) will experience one issue or another when WSL2 is activated, because more abstraction is happening and more things could go wrong.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#628

Post by sellmesoap »

elif wrote: post #7

Every time I praise WSL on hn I pay the karma tax but I will die on this hill. WSL is more powerful than Linux because of how easy it is to run multiple OS on the same computer simultaneously. It's as powerful as Linux with some janky custom local docker wrappers for device support, local storage mapping, and network mapping. Except it's not janky at all. It's an absolute delight to use, out of the box, on a desktop…

Jumping on the anti-wsl bandwagon; I just can't abide the loss on control on windows, will the next update ignore/reset/override my privacy settings? What Gordian knot must I slay to have a local only account (Thanks Rufus!) How do I turn off/uninstall a million things I don't want, Xbox game bar?!?

Linux or *BSD give so much more respect to the user, on windows you are the product! Stand up for yourself and your data!

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#629

Post by spartanatreyu »

incoming1211 wrote: post #527
GuB-42 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WSL is more powerful than Linux This is the kind of statement that makes you pay the karma tax. WSL is great, I use it on a day to day basis. I also use Linux on a day to day basis. And as great as WSL is, for running Linux software on supported hardware, Linux beats WSL hands down. And I mean, of course it does, do you expect a VM to beat native? In the same way that Windows software runs better on Windows. (with…

[flagged]

WSL 1 had fast IO but couldn't support all features.

WSL 2 supports all features but has famously slow IO.

Example:

1. Shell into WSL

2. Clone a repo

3. Make a bunch of changes to the repo with a program within WSL

4. Run git status (should finish in less than a second)

5. Open repo from a Windows IDE

6. Run git status. This makes windows change each file's permissions, ownership, etc... so it can access the files as git status recursively travels through every file and folder

7. Go for coffee

8. Go for lunch

9. Git status finished after 35 minutes.

10. Close IDE

11. Shell back into WSL

12. Make a change in WSL

13. Run git status from within WSL

14. Wait another 35 minutes as Windows restores each file's ownership and permissions one by one

------------------------------------

The IO overhead is so bad that Microsoft built two new products just to get around it:

1. VSCode WSL remote-client architecture.

VSCode acts as a server within WSL and a client within Windows. Connect both VSCode instances (through proxy/tunnel if needed) and the server can perform the client's File IO ops on behalf of the client rather than letting an Application on Windows try to interact with any of WSL's file systems.

2. Windows DevDrive

Basically set aside a virtual-disk/partition and set it up as a different file system (ReFS) that doesn't use Window's file permissions, ownership and doesn't decrypt then decompress on each file input, doesn't compress then encrypt each file output, and doesn't virus scan the files on usage.

TL;DR Store the files on a network drive and hope race-condition ops from both WSL and Windows don't corrupt any files.

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