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I'd rather read the prompt

claytonwramsey.com

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Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#621

Post by 7bit »

Ma8ee wrote: post #462
7bit wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving. No. It has value, because companies value it. It sets the starting point for your first salary and then for every salary negotiation moving forward. As someone who did not go to university, but has the same knowledge self-taught I can tell you that this piece of paper would have opened so many doors and made life so much easier. It took…

And companies value it because it signals that the holder of that paper can do the work and isn’t completely stupid.

That holds the same truth as that all other person can't do the work and are completely stupid. Which is zero.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#622

Post by cranium »

I've found really saddening to see students submit written-by-ChatGPT arguments to the department council when their university spot was on the line (for failing grades). This was their ultimate chance to prove their worth and they left it to ChatGPT.

At first, I thought they didn't care. However, it was so pervasive that it couldn't be the only explanation. I was forced to conclude they trusted ChatGPT more than themselves to argue their case... (Some students did not care, obviously.)

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#623

Post by 59nadir »

dep_b wrote: post #582
jameshart wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve come across this analogy that I think works well: Using an LLM to do schoolwork is like taking a forklift to the gym. If all we were interested in was moving the weights around, you’d be right to use a tool to help you. But we’re doing this work for the effect it will have on you . The reason a teacher asks you a question is not because they don’t know the answer.

If I could have a healthy and good looking physique by never going to the gym I would never go to the gym.

Right, but people using LLMs aren't actually getting the mental equivalent of a healthy and good looking physique if they let LLMs do stuff for them.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#624

Post by Akronymus »

pjmlp wrote: post #517
Mengkudulangsat wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If students find a way to get a diploma without doing the work, it will soon be worth less than the paper on which it is printed. Amen. I look forward to the era where we train professionals the old fashion way: apprenticeships. It sure worked for blacksmiths and artisans for hundreds of years.

That is how many professionals are training in many European countries, and they still want a diploma to go with it. In many countries, regardless of how learning it was achieved, you still need a paper to prove that you actually did it. And in countries like Germany, better keep all those job evaluations close at heart because they get asked for as part of many job interview processes, additionally have them reviewe…

Techbically even those hidden phrases arent permitted by law, and you have the right to get those phrases removed/have it be turned into a basic evaluation (just from when to when + what job)

The employers that do use those hidden phrases just hope they arent challenged/the employee doesnt notice.

Thats also why most evaluations are entirely written in the superlative.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#625

Post by hi_hi »

So it seems like the future is people to write in a command prompt style for llms to better parse and repeat back our information. God I hope that isn't the future of the internet.

How about an emoji like library designed exclusively for LLMs, so we can quickly condense context and mood without having to write a bunch of paragraphs, or the next iteration of "txt" speech for LLMs. What does the next step of users optimising for LLMs look like?

I miss the 80's/90's :-(

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#626

Post by figassis »

animal_spirits wrote: post #424
rohansood15 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students want the diploma because it has value. It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving. If students find a way to get a diploma without doing the work, it will soon be worth less than the paper on which it is printed.

Further, if a student can get a diploma without work, then the diploma does not have value anymore. If diplomas are no longer valuable, the signal they provide in the labor market will turn into noise. If employers no longer look for the diploma-signal in an employee, what will be the reason an employer will hire an employee? I think this story will become true, and society will radically shift into one where critica…

I might be a good thing. Colleges have become complacent and too expensive. Costs of an education have been increasing while employment opportunities decreasing for some degree categories. People have been sounding alarms for a while and colleges have not been listening. The student loan market is booming.

Now if students can shortcut the education process, they can spend less time in it and this may force colleges to reinvent themselves and actually rethink what education looks like in the new era.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#627

Post by Ekaros »

Ma8ee wrote: post #462
7bit wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving. No. It has value, because companies value it. It sets the starting point for your first salary and then for every salary negotiation moving forward. As someone who did not go to university, but has the same knowledge self-taught I can tell you that this piece of paper would have opened so many doors and made life so much easier. It took…

And companies value it because it signals that the holder of that paper can do the work and isn’t completely stupid.

I really think that they are used because it is easiest and cheapest fully legal filter. When you have significant number of candidates any filter that comes first to mind is selected. Degree is one such one that won't ever legally bite you.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#628

Post by slics »

7bit wrote: post #425
rohansood15 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students want the diploma because it has value. It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving. If students find a way to get a diploma without doing the work, it will soon be worth less than the paper on which it is printed.

> It has value because a student can only get it by learning and problem-solving. No. It has value, because companies value it. It sets the starting point for your first salary and then for every salary negotiation moving forward. As someone who did not go to university, but has the same knowledge self-taught I can tell you that this piece of paper would have opened so many doors and made life so much easier. It took…

You forgot one big reward with your approach. You are not 200k in debt which will take that kid with diploma to get that piece of paper. You are debt free.

I am not arguing on the merit of having a diploma is a bad thing - the colleges these days have turned their backs on the people as well.

Average $100k to get a piece of paper (LLMs are not the issue here the useless degrees that the colleges offer). Invest that $100k at an average 15% return - it becomes a lot of money 25 years from now.

Or get a piece of paper (if your major is useless) and pay the banks 100k + interest.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#629

Post by landgenoot »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #510
mikepurvis wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to see such world-weary criticism of the bullet-points-with-bold style in TFA— it's long been what I've reached for when writing for a technical audience, whether that's in a wiki page, a design doc, a README, a PR, or even a whole book. I feel like for most of my audiences it provides the proper anchor points for effective skimming while still giving me room to include further detail and explanation…

One of my issues with LLMs is how much they match the academic, technical, and corporate styles of speaking Ive learned over the years. Now when I write people ignore me because they assume I'm just pasting LLM output.

You are not alone. Nowadays, I'm ashamed of using words like "moreover", "firstly", "furthermore". Pre-LLM, people used to compliment me on my writing style

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#630

Post by tpmoney »

palata wrote: post #223
_qswe wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understanding or being interesting has nothing to do with it. We use calculators and computers for a reason. No one hires people to respond to API requests by hand; we run the code on servers. Using the right tool for the job is just doing my job well.

> We use calculators and computers for a reason. No one hires people to respond to API requests by hand; we run the code on servers We were talking about writing, not about vibe coding. We don't use calculators for writing. We don't use API requests for writing (except when we make an LLM write for us). > Using the right tool for the job is just doing my job well. I don't know what your job is. But if your job is to…

> We were talking about writing, not about vibe coding. We don't use calculators for writing. We don't use API requests for writing (except when we make an LLM write for us).

We do however use them to summarize and transform data all the time. Consider the ever present spreadsheet. Huge amounts of data are thrown into spreadsheets and formulas are applied to that data to present us with graphs and statistics. You could do all of that by hand, and you'd probably have a much better "internalization" about what the data is. But most of the time, hand crafting graphs from raw data and internalizing it isn't useful or necessary to accomplish what you actually want to accomplish with the data.

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