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Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

wsj.com

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Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#621

Post by cyberax »

sureIy wrote: post #613
cyberax wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a more difficult argument. Consoles are not competing with regular general-purpose computers, and the console manufacturers go out of their way to make it impossible to install unapproved third-party software on them. And since all the console manufacturers are selling the hardware at loss or with low margins, they can argue that it's just how the market works (free razors but expensive razor blades).

> Consoles are not competing with regular general-purpose computers Yes but why? They very powerful computers. New recycling laws might force companies to give up the keys to the hardware before or after their obsoletion. The precedent here is SIM-locked devices. At some point you must let the user do what they want with it.

Consoles have a surprisingly long commercial life, more than 5-7 years. So the usability of old consoles at the end of their lifecycle as a PC replacement is not that great.

Might still make sense, though. Just for general historical preservation.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#622

Post by spacedcowboy »

kergonath wrote: post #492
spacedcowboy wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to cancel an Apple subscription recently. I didn't know where to do it. I knew it was coming up because I got an email from Apple to say it was shortly due for renewal. It took me about 5 seconds to google "cancel subscription apple" and find about a zillion articles on how to do it. Basically open up the App Store, go to your account, click on subscriptions, click on the one in the list you want to cancel.…

> I got an email from Apple to say it was shortly due for renewal. There was a link in that email to a page to manage and cancel that subscription, although it might not be obvious.

I went back and checked, and yes there was.

I guess I just saw the title, saw it was a subscription renewal and jumped to "not just no, but hell no", missing the link at the end :)

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#623

Post by saagarjha »

scarface_74 wrote: post #315
saagarjha wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thus the Court found: > In retail brick-and-mortar stores, consumers do not lack knowledge of options. Technology platforms differ. Yeah, but keep going on about how this is the same as Walmart

Yet everyday, people seem to know that to use Netflix, Spotify, Hulu, etc on their phone, they have to sign up on the website since you can’t pay for either via in app purchases.

Courts understand that making things annoying but possible is not actually a counterargument.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#624

Post by fsflover »

jimbokun wrote: post #553
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t see this on Android, where you can install apps from outside the Play Store.

Does Android have just as good a security record as iOS? I honestly don't know the answer to this question.

F-Droid has a better security record.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#625

Post by Draiken »

stahtops wrote: post #588
Draiken wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You go where your customers are. Companies can't ignore Apple if they want to sell in the US so they're forced into their ecosystem. It's not a preference like you imply. I'll never understand how people defend blatantly anti-competitive behavior even when it hurts themselves.

Our priorities just aren't aligned, I am not being measurably hurt by any of the AppStore rules cyberax laid out. I don't want to be forced or even prompted to fill out my personal information on every apps website. To me that sounds like an increased burden of my time, and it puts my personal information at higher risk to be gathered and sold or leaked. I prefer the transaction to happen within the app on iOS confor…

> I know exactly what happens when we just let the free market "manage" anything.

This is literally how we got here right now. The "free market" allowed Apple to be anti-competitive. The way you say it makes it sound like we're not in a free market, lol.

Monopolies (or its variants) are literally the end game of free markets. You can't have free markets without eventually reaching this shitty endgame of a few players manipulating the market as they see fit.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#626

Post by danShumway »

scarface_74 wrote: post #574
danShumway wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Why do people keep on asking this? Yes, practically every single tech product that you buy from Walmart will include links to their online stores in the packaging. Including Apple products! And this has been the case for ages. I remember buying DVDs from Walmart and opening them up and the first thing you would see is a slip of paper telling you in giant letters to use some reward program or streaming service ra…

And that’s after you buy it. Are you willing to sell your software up front instead of a subscription? Walmart doesn’t distribute products for free that then you can pay for it after you take it home.

Apple's policy was also the same for apps that you bought upfront. There are paid apps on the app store, they also were not allowed to link to payment methods in-app for things like DLCs, add-ons, etc...

Which noteably, Walmart doesn't restrict.

----

Also not for nothing, but this was an impressively fast pivot you made from "well, Walmart wouldn't let you do this" to "Walmart is nothing like the app store" ;)

Like.. you asked the question. Would Walmart let you link to a competing store? Yes, and everybody does it. You are the one here who compared Apple to Walmart, I'm sorry if that comparison didn't go the way you wanted it to. If perhaps you want to suggest that Walmart is not like the app store.. well.. congratulations, you and the judge are in agreement on that.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#627

Post by intrasight »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #401
intrasight wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be a fine. Nobody will go to jail. Apple will appeal. They will likely prevail on this "steering" complaint on a freedom of speech basis. It is their platform afterall. My concern is more about having private companies control platforms upon which we depend. I do often wish that I had a crystal ball to peer a decade or several into the future to see what the future holds for humanity in this regard. Our le…

The far bigger question is about the 27% fee on purchases made outside the apple ecosystem. If this ruling is upheld that revenue stream is gone

Developers can do that now. But don't because it's more work and they can't steer customers down that path. So the "steering" ruling is critical to changing that.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#628

Post by Rapzid »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #612
nilamo wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now we're assuming that the Netflix app does not know which domain it considers safe?

Think of an app that allows user generated content

There is already the ability to establish "associated domains" for the apps which establishes a special relationship between them.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#629

Post by stahtops »

viridian wrote: post #609
stahtops wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our priorities just aren't aligned, I am not being measurably hurt by any of the AppStore rules cyberax laid out. I don't want to be forced or even prompted to fill out my personal information on every apps website. To me that sounds like an increased burden of my time, and it puts my personal information at higher risk to be gathered and sold or leaked. I prefer the transaction to happen within the app on iOS confor…

Why did you choose to write your first post in bad faith?

Not bad faith. In 2006, the AppStore didn’t exist. In 2008, it did. Many people decided that they could sell an app and make a profit.

A decade and a half later, the overhead is the same but somehow people think they’re being treated unfairly.

You can make the app, you can charge what you want, you can make the app for any and every platform. Where is the harm? Where is the anti-competitiveness?

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#630

Post by stahtops »

Draiken wrote: post #625
stahtops wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our priorities just aren't aligned, I am not being measurably hurt by any of the AppStore rules cyberax laid out. I don't want to be forced or even prompted to fill out my personal information on every apps website. To me that sounds like an increased burden of my time, and it puts my personal information at higher risk to be gathered and sold or leaked. I prefer the transaction to happen within the app on iOS confor…

> I know exactly what happens when we just let the free market "manage" anything. This is literally how we got here right now. The "free market" allowed Apple to be anti-competitive. The way you say it makes it sound like we're not in a free market, lol. Monopolies (or its variants) are literally the end game of free markets. You can't have free markets without eventually reaching this shitty endgame of a few players…

Monopoly of what? Manipulating how?

You are free to charge whatever you want, free to release your app on any platform.

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