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Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

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Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#621

Post by vlovich123 »

ethbr1 wrote: post #610
exe34 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you go from: 1. White House uses machinery of state to force the hand of private enterprise to hide impact of tariffs on prices. 2. Private enterprise acquiesces. to "The whole thing is murky at best"? It's pretty clear fascism to me. From wikipedia (while they are allowed to exist): "centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition".

One has to be careful, with faced with opposition that ignores facts, not to succumb to the same debasement. We all have speculation about what might have happened behind the scenes -- but it's just that, speculation. Disliking Trump isn't license to spin supposition as factual reality. Hyperbolic phrasing for effect errodes respect for reality, regardless of which side it comes from. (I realize there's a 50/50 chanc…

> Disliking Trump isn't license to spin supposition as factual reality.

Evaluating situations in a vacuum and sticking just to confirmed facts isn’t a hallmark of being considered and knowledgeable. One must also consider patterns of behavior and Trump pressuring Amazon to change a policy of both consistent with all of this. Facts in order of events:

* fact: News report that Amazon is going to show tariff impact on their Haul product

* fact: press secretary blasts Amazon in the news indicating she’s repeating a conversation she just had with Trump

* fact: Trump had a phone call with Bezos

* fact: Amazon puts out a clarifying statement they won’t be doing it.

* contradicting fact: Amazon claims they were never actually going to do it

* pattern: quid pro quo is how Trump operates. see the Ukraine call that got him an impeachment in the first term trying to pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden in exchange for weapons

* pattern: businesses and politicians being yes-men to Trump.

So facts + pattern = reasonable hypothesis of what happened. If you have contravening facts I’d love to hear them but you can’t just stick your fingers in your ear and pretend you have to have a confirmed fact before building a hypothesis of the likelihood of what happened.

It’s like trying to pretend Putin isn’t the one murdering dissident journalists or opposing politicians or trumping up fake charges.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#622

Post by kristopolous »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #458
dboreham wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't you just say exactly the same thing as the parent comment?

I can't tell if this is trolling. If you genuinely don't think that each side has principles, which in fact overlap considerably, you aren't very curious about the world. ETA: In case you are genuinely interested in learning about how liberal and conservative people differ psychologically, Jonathan Haidt is a very good person to read.

One groups principles are hierarchy, control, and cruelty.

Arbitrary corrupt incompetency is what they're looking for.

Caring about other, having respect, being sensitive, these are all 'woke' things from the "great awakening" cult.

I want more affordable college and the people in charge want to send people like me to concentration camps through kangaroo courts. This is the difference.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#623

Post by cosmicgadget »

rco8786 wrote: post #546
cosmicgadget wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bait. They want you sounding hysterical and spending your time talking about things not on their agenda.

That's what everyone told me about project 2025 too. Plus I thought one of trump's things was "no more BS". Is that not a thing anymore?

Who is 'everyone'? Trump voters?

Don't know what to say, P2025 was definitely the plan. A third term is flooding the zone with distractions. And if by some twist of fate it's his intent, the earliest you can do anything about it is midterms. Before that we will have had pivotal moments on tariffs, Ukraine/NATO, DOGE, and due process.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#624

Post by ChicagoDave »

rco8786 wrote: post #544
ChicagoDave wrote: post #340

Not going to change the buying market. A lot of people will never buy a Tesla. There are options, with more choices coming next year.

> Not going to change the buying market. Price changes absolutely change the buying market. What a weird thing to say. A lot of people will never buy a Tesla, a lot still will (they delivered 300k+ vehicles in Q1). The ones who still will buy will also consider the price.

No company can withstand political backlash at a national scale.

Tesla has lost significant ground just because Merlin started playing politics. Target is suffering badly from their DEI decision.

Globally, Tesla is in even worse shape. No one in Europe will be buy one now. China makes their own EVs.

The stock is being propped up by institutional investors. Eventually even that will collapse.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#625

Post by Jensson »

voidUpdate wrote: post #515
HenryBemis wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if/when (going from N to S) Canada, US, Mexico will form a "North American Union" (in the spirit of the European Union). 50 years? 100 years? never? Current politics aside, I think: Canada and US have 'very much' in common (I'd risk saying (imho) 85% common 'stuff'). Canada, US and Mexico have 'plenty' in common (mostly Christian, capitalism/consumerism, way of life) (I'd risk saying (imho) 70% common 'stuff…

I mean, the US is already a sort of "north american union", I still don't know why it's one country when all the individual states are so diverse and want different things

> I still don't know why it's one country when all the individual states are so diverse and want different things

The US civil war decided that states doesn't have those rights so it became a country instead of a union.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#626

Post by Jensson »

Aloisius wrote: post #131

From the 2025 Part 583 for this year: - Tesla model 3 - 70-75% US/Canada content - Tesla model Y - 70% US/Canada content - Tesla Cybertruck - 65% US/Canada content - Tesla model S - 65% US/Canada content Perhaps it is calculated differently since no one hits 85%. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2025-04/MY2025-A...

They probably include Mexico, add that and Tesla is above 85% according to that list.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#627

Post by panick21_ »

ta1243 wrote: post #530
panick21_ wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would happen is that representatives are more locally focused on their districts and would vote in larger 'sub'-parties. In a single seat district system, increase in seats its also proven to improve representation for minorities. I don't think the expansion by itself is a fix-all solution. One of the issues is that you have many single issue districts and those that get elected can vote whatever they want on ev…

Where congress just follows the party line. Or does back room deals I think the larger problem with democracy in general is that constituencies are no longer geographic. A software engineer in Austin and one in San Jose have far more in common than a software engineer in Austin and a Tractor dealer in Austin. The representative for Austin has to represent the conflicting views of both the Tractor dealer and the softw…

Back room deals aren't necessary a negative. That how the sausage is made. I rather have backroom deals when people can make rational compromise, rather then having media spectral where congress sessions are reality TV. Mostly used to get clips that can then be used in adds.

> I think the larger problem with democracy in general is that constituencies are no longer geographic.

I think that is a good point. Specifically on federal level. On local level geographic still matters.

Its basically the old socialist argument about class system. Just with a much more complex class system.

I guess you could have some sort of cluster analysis putting into X different interest clusters and you could vote for a representative in each. And then somehow calculate an optimal congress.

"Vote for me, I'm representing technically inclined fantasy nerds that like cat girls"

Not sure that is the solution. But you are right that the 'pyramid' style system used in most countries could be improved on. A simple version of this is basically to do all federal votes for congress and use some kind of representation algorithm.

The issue with this is that doing a political campaign on a federal level is insanely expensive. And I can't even imagine if each congress person had to try to get elected on federal level. The amount of political adds would be crazy.

I really don't have the solution and its hard to run experiments on things like this.

> The representative for Austin has to represent the conflicting views of both the Tractor dealer and the software engineer.

Smaller countries does help her, as geographic area gets smaller more interested are represented.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#628

Post by _t9ow »

chgs wrote: post #503
_t9ow wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why libertarians/free market proponents think that Singapore is the paragon of laissez-faire economics. Try studying the country's housing market policies, for example, and you'll quickly realise that the government is extremely interventionist. The difference is between Singaporean policymakers/civil servants and their counterparts from elsewhere is that the former are actually world-class in term…

Singapore is the example of a (relatively) benevolent dictator over decades.

I wouldn't call it a dictatorship -- no label neatly applies to Singapore, but calling it a dictatorship (even if benevolent) is quite incorrect. Describing it as a soft authoritarian country is much more appropriate.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#629

Post by Henchman21 »

carpo wrote: post #48
kcb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk became CEO of Tesla when their only car was an electric converted Lotus...

Yeah, I think we should try to separate his business acumen from his nut-case personality. He can be a successful businessman AND a fucking prick.

Why are those separable to you? They aren’t at all to me. One informs the other at all times.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#630

Post by hnaccount141 »

socalgal2 wrote: post #34

I don't know if it's the same people but many of the comments here seem the opposite of the comments on EUs rules where people say they're targeting specific companies and comments say "no, the rules are such than all companies over a certain size are covered". If the rule is 85% domestic than any company can do it. I'm not saying the tariffs are good. Only that their point is to get things made domesticly

Context matters. In a vacuum, the 85% rule is fine. In reality, it excludes a single company whose CEO not only holds a position in the administration making the rules, but who clearly holds enough influence that the president himself shot a Tesla ad in front of the white house.

Given such visible conflicts of interest, the administration should be bending over backwards to dispel perceptions of impropriety. The fact that they aren't, and that these coincidences keep occurring, should be telling.

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