Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

621–630 of 875 posts

Re: Pope Francis has died

#621

Post by lo_zamoyski »

timeon wrote: post #338
jimmcslim wrote: post #237

The Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be…

> * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” Yes, LLMs are more about knowledge than intelligence. AK rather than AI.

Not even knowledge. Knowledge requires intentionality and belief as well as justification. LLMs don’t have any of these.

We ought to avoid anthropomorphizing LLMs. It is muddle headed.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#622

Post by 1718627440 »

d3ckard wrote: post #584
1718627440 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he didn’t mean it as allow yourself to get killed. You know, what happened on Easter right?

I do, according to christian doctrine Jesus sacrificed himself for humanity’s sins. That sacrifice wouldn’t be particularly meaningful if it came with expectation for everybody to follow through. As much as I am not a fan of this (or any other) religion, I’m pretty sure it’s not a suicide pact.

I think getting killed for your belief is exactly what Jesus was arguing for. It was also what all apostles did and the only cause for the next 300 years to be declared a saint.

Jesus' death was special, because he was without sins, he was the son of God (YMMV) and, because was walking around afterwards physically (i.e. capable of touching and eating, etc.) on earth. I am not sure, why you name it suicide, because he didn't killed himself, he got himself killed.

I do not think, that Jesus would defend "the agressor". But fighting in return is also not good, which is where "turning the other cheek" comes into play.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#623

Post by JasserInicide »

permo-w wrote: post #587
f30e3dfed1c9 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is probably exactly because he spent a career considering the cognition behind language that he is not as impressed by LLMs as many others are. I'll readily admit to being expert in neither language and linguistics nor AI, but I am skeptical that anything going on inside an LLM is properly described as "cognition."

does it really matter if it can be described as cognition or not? to me these models are useful for how effective they are, and that's literally it. the processes going on within them are extremely complex and at times very impressive, and whether some arbitrarily undefined word applies or not does not really matter. I think sometimes people forget that words are not maths or logic. when words come into language, no…

does it really matter if it can be described as cognition or not?

Yes...it does. "AI" aka modern flavor LLMs as we understand them today are just doing certain things thats humans can do but orders of magnitude faster. What exactly is impressive about it being able to succinctly sum up any topic under the Sun aside from the speed? It will never create a new genre of music. It will never create a new style of art from the ground up. It lacks the human spark of ingenuity. To even suggest that what it does anything close to human cognition is egregiously insulting.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#624

Post by 1718627440 »

probably_wrong wrote: post #343
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #278

I'm curious how devout Catholics will perceive it when the leader of their Church dies on their holiest day, which commemorates the resurrection of Christ. Will they going to see it as a symbol, a sign, or perhaps some kind of deeper message?

The way I see it, expecting holy days to somehow be "safe" ignores the basis on which the Church was built. Martyrs were mauled by lions regardless of their work in spreading the word of God. Jesus himself died just like the common thieves next to him. The Catholic Church is built by people, and people sometimes die.

It wasn't regardless, it was because. They're not saints despite being martyrs, but because they are.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#625

Post by Lionga »

wat10000 wrote: post #451
Lionga wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you just need to stop there (or better find more drastic tone, but ok) and not make it sound ok, heck be a good thing afterwards.

Dude was leader of a massive organization that claims to be a divine instrument and the only path to salvation. Acknowledging another religion as anything other than heresy is a step up.

So if the terrorist of charlie hebdo would have just tortured the journalists there for a few hours and maybe cut of their fingers that would also be a "step up" or "refreshingly open-minded"?

Dude I can not believe how it can be anything but horrible to make acts of terrorism and killing of innocent anything but the worst humans can do.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#626

Post by bonzini »

matteoraso wrote: post #508

RIP. I think history will find Pope Francis to be a man who was a fairly average pope that constantly got taken out of context. Nothing he did was really far out of line with Catholic doctrine, but he was often portrayed as being more liberal than he really was.

> Nothing he did was really far out of line with Catholic doctrine

Maybe he was merely good at pointing out the obvious, maybe it's what the church needed/needs?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#627

Post by lo_zamoyski »

exe34 wrote: post #422
jimmcslim wrote: post #237

The Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be…

> but in their hearts are capable of deciding I question both the organ and the action.

He’s speaking to a popular audience in a poetic fashion. No one believes a pump in your chest is the seat of intellgence, even if it may be involved in some extended and removed manner with the expression of intelligence.

If Francis held Thomistic views on the subject, then even the brain, while needed for human intelligence, does not suffice for its operation, as functions like abstraction require the intellect, which cannot be entirely physical in operation since form cannot exist in matter without also instantiating the form, something by definition opposed to abstraction.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#628

Post by lambdaphagy »

aaronbaugher wrote: post #614
lambdaphagy wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what many Catholics found frustrating about Pope Francis was his tendency to make apparently off-the-cuff remarks which, while never quite explicitly straying outside the bounds of faith and morals defined by the Magisterium, often seemed to strongly imply the opposite. This was especially true for audiences that did not already know the Catechism through and through, which even most Catholics do not. In that…

Pope St. Pius X put it in Pascendi : "It is one of the cleverest devices of the Modernists (as they are commonly and rightly called) to present their doctrines without order and systematic arrangement, in a scattered and disjointed manner, so as to make it appear as if their minds were in doubt or hesitation, whereas in reality they are quite fixed and steadfast." Francis, like other Modernists, had the knack of sayi…

I share some of your frustrations, and yet there is also a spiritual peril in failing to extend charity in the interpretation of these remarks, let alone in claiming to know that anyone who interpreted them differently is being willfully obtuse.

The greater the errors of the Franciscan papacy in your view, the more you owe the man your prayers.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#629

Post by wat10000 »

Lionga wrote: post #625
wat10000 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude was leader of a massive organization that claims to be a divine instrument and the only path to salvation. Acknowledging another religion as anything other than heresy is a step up.

So if the terrorist of charlie hebdo would have just tortured the journalists there for a few hours and maybe cut of their fingers that would also be a "step up" or "refreshingly open-minded"? Dude I can not believe how it can be anything but horrible to make acts of terrorism and killing of innocent anything but the worst humans can do.

No. Using soft language about someone else's words is not the same as using soft language about torture. It's not even remotely similar. There isn't some transitive property of outrage here. If you can't tell the difference between saying "these terrorists had reasonable motivations for murdering those innocent people" and "at least that guy's awful statement has one thing going for it" then I really can't help you.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#630

Post by lanstin »

moralestapia wrote: post #588
gopher_space wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If 99% of people in the street can agree on the meaning of a word without much ambiguity then that's a good starting point This turns out to never be true once you get into actual details. Try to buy blue house paint for a basic example.

I do not understand your comment as buying blue paint is an extremely trivial thing to do unless you're in the middle of the Sahara desert.

Which blue paint? If you are buying by yourself, it might be simple, if you are a decisive sort, but there's more blues than I at least expected.
Post reply on HN