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Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

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Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#621

Post by wqaatwt »

rafaelmn wrote: post #460
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They say they "use AI to match the keywords in job description". If recruiters only pick up your resumes based on keyword matching themselves, what is one to do, if not adapt their resumes to said keywords so they can at least try to get to a human interview? Not talking about India specifically, but in general. Hiring is broken, so everyone tries to fix it in their own ways to maximize their chances.

> what is one to do Find roles where your skills match the required skills ?

And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Well maybe they don’t.. but of if they manage to take your interview spot it hardly matters.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#622

Post by wqaatwt »

rafaelmn wrote: post #460
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They say they "use AI to match the keywords in job description". If recruiters only pick up your resumes based on keyword matching themselves, what is one to do, if not adapt their resumes to said keywords so they can at least try to get to a human interview? Not talking about India specifically, but in general. Hiring is broken, so everyone tries to fix it in their own ways to maximize their chances.

> what is one to do Find roles where your skills match the required skills ?

And what happens when another candidate has the same skills and a bunch of other skills on top of those? Well maybe they don’t.. but if they manage to take your interview spot it hardly matters.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#623

Post by sashimimono »

Regarding "Insist on camera ON phone screens.", DON'T do that.

Remember you try to hire a ${coder, admin, } not the next tv-news-presenter, beeing on screen is not a mandatory needed skill in most jobs.

By asking for something, that makes people uncomfortable, you will exclude a lot of likely brilliant candidates.

People who refuse to do video interviews may be for example: - people who value privacy, not only their own, but most likely yours too - people who feel very uncomfortable beeing watched by strangers and who think or even know that they will perform significant worse than in an audio-only interviewsituation - people who simply don't own a camera - people who use textonly computers offjob - poeple who have experienced that your 'standard'-videochat-app may not work, maybe because they use linux, bsd, os/2 or nonstandard operatingsystems - people who don't have broadband internet, yes there are still people like that - people who pay for every bit send, and yes having a not so cheap phone/internet contract is still common in some areas - people who feel uncomfortable to let strangers in their bedroom, even virtualy - people who have disabilities or cosmetic issues that they fear may distract you - people who have disabilities where moving and out-of-sync pictures distract them - people who tend to refuse unreasonable requests and who therefor regard you as unqualified to be their next employeer - ...

All of them have good reasons not wanting video interviews.

You, as an employer, may miss your best fit.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#624

Post by mathgeek »

noirbot wrote: post #590
mathgeek wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A button up shirt without a jacket, at the time, was business casual at most. What they wanted was a t-shirt and jeans. Even Walmart, when I’d worked as a teen, expected a collar and appreciated a sports coat for interviewing. Different times for sure.

Sure, but t-shirt and jeans is also what everyone working at an Apple Store wears. It'd be one thing if they didn't say what to wear - then I'd totally understand going a bit above, but if they specifically put in "not formal", then it seems reasonable to assume they mean "match the uniform generally".

They didn’t say what to wear, they said a vague what not to wear. Almost all interviews at that point in time expected attire a step above your intended position. I personally think it was just a silly test of whether you already know what they expect. “You are a great hire but you dressed too nicely for the interview” is certainly a thing that I chuckle at.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#625

Post by wqaatwt »

tyzoid wrote: post #560
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you studied and worked with the tech in your free time, you can say so, and show your work. Recruiters or HR who check your resume never cared about what you do in your free time as counting as professional experience, they only do keyword matching on languages or stacks with "year of on the job experience". So white lies are the only way to pass through that initial filter and get to a technical person who will…

> who cares what experience in your resume was a lie and what not Just being blunt: that's called Fraud. Making false representations for personal gain (employment, in this case) is one of the classic examples. It doesn't matter if nobody checks in the moment, or if you usually get away with it, dishonesty is dishonesty. If I were to discover that someone joined my team under false pretenses, you can bet I'll have ve…

Outright lies? Perhaps but even then it’s not clear if it meets the legal definition in all cases.

Exaggerating, misinterpreting the requirements and not telling the full story with all the details? Well that’s entirely subjective.

> under false pretenses

Like if a person has only has 2 years of professional experience in tech X but the job ad required 5 and he didn’t explicitly declare that during the interview without being bc prompted?

Or claiming that he has experience with technology Y (but it’s non-“professional” experience since he learnt it pn his own and again.. didn’t disclose that during the interview?

Even if that person turns out to be great at his job and you somehow find out he wasn’t 100% honest about some finer points in the interview (who tracks or remembers that stuff anyway?) you’d still feel the same way?

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#626

Post by atq2119 »

malfist wrote: post #373
atq2119 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a suit to a technical interview is an immediate red flag. Everybody knows you don't wear suits in this industry, so what's your motive? Your ability to wear a suit is irrelevant for the job, so what weaknesses that are relevant are you rather clumsily trying to hide?

It's a red flag? Come on, if I wear a suit it's because I want too and has no impact on my skills as a software engineer. Being hyper judgemental about the clothes people wear isn't productive

Calling it a red flag may have been too harsh. It's certainly not an immediate no.

However, like it or not, it is a signal because it means you deviate significantly from the mode of the distribution. And a sober application of Bayes suggests that if anything, all else equal that signal is a negative one.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#627

Post by wqaatwt »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #488
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you studied and worked with the tech in your free time, you can say so, and show your work. Recruiters or HR who check your resume never cared about what you do in your free time as counting as professional experience, they only do keyword matching on languages or stacks with "year of on the job experience". So white lies are the only way to pass through that initial filter and get to a technical person who will…

> Switching to a tech stack is not the same as switching to brain surgery. SW engineering is a critical component of both medicine and rocket science, and doing it wrong can kill people. Beyond that, you'd be harming others by taking the job from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified, and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them. > Recruiters or HR who check your resume never cared about what yo…

> critical component of both medicine and rocket science

Do you know a lot people who ended up having to write software for rockets or medical devices after applying for a generic web development job?

> from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified

That’s all very nice. Unless you end up being that someone yourself.

> and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them.

That’s highly debatable. It’s possible a lot of them did the same thing and unless you outright lied (instead of exaggerating etc.) and are still able to do the job is it really “deception”?

Anyway.. there is a lot of nuance and lying vs not lying is not even remotely a binary thing.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#628

Post by Flozzin »

sashimimono wrote: post #623

Regarding "Insist on camera ON phone screens.", DON'T do that. Remember you try to hire a ${coder, admin, } not the next tv-news-presenter, beeing on screen is not a mandatory needed skill in most jobs. By asking for something, that makes people uncomfortable, you will exclude a lot of likely brilliant candidates. People who refuse to do video interviews may be for example: - people who value privacy, not only their…

It's also about what you are avoiding. Its clearly a trade off, as you lay out. But then you are opening up another set of problems you will have to tackle. For the interviewer in the article, they prefer cameras.

It's not much different than choosing to interview people who will come into the office. Of course you are limiting yourself to people in the area. But employers know this.

Also, this idea that there is a single best candidate is rubbish. There are multiple candidates that are just as good as the next. And every person has their ups and downs, as well as trade offs. I also find it hard to believe that most employers are going to be able to tell the difference on such a fine scale as to not be able to choose certain limiting factors.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#629

Post by vunderba »

sashimimono wrote: post #623

Regarding "Insist on camera ON phone screens.", DON'T do that. Remember you try to hire a ${coder, admin, } not the next tv-news-presenter, beeing on screen is not a mandatory needed skill in most jobs. By asking for something, that makes people uncomfortable, you will exclude a lot of likely brilliant candidates. People who refuse to do video interviews may be for example: - people who value privacy, not only their…

Given that the norm before remote work was literally face to face interviews and being seen on a daily basis in an office, I buy the "privacy excuse" for about 5 seconds.

The level of trust is simply too low - if being seen for a few hours over a web camera is that much of a dealbreaker for a candidate, there's plenty of candidates to take their place.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#630

Post by mathgeek »

noirbot wrote: post #586
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A button up shirt isn't formal.

I'd mostly agree, but with them specifically calling out "not anything formal" as part of the expectations for interview attire wouldn't be the time I'd want to be riding the line of "is this too close to formal". This isn't a job at a tailor or stylist. You're not being tested on your understanding of the roles of various garments in different levels of fashion over time. Presumably OP had seen/visited an Apple Stor…

We might be getting a but pedantic about what “formal” meant at the time, but you would have had to be in that Apple culture circle to consider a button down formal. Seems normal today, but it was not back then in most parts of the world. Today I would agree that folks would already know the expectation.
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