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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#621

Post by coolhand2120 »

wrs wrote: post #364
sega_sai wrote: post #78

As a person who lived in the States for a bit, and listened to a lot of news, I remember always this almost fawning over the Founding Fathers, checks and balances and great American constitution. It is remarkable, how easy it all goes, and most people don't do anything (i.e. out of 100 top law firms, only a handful joined the lawsuit against the government, etc.)

What we’re experiencing is a group exploiting the biggest vulnerability in the American system, one that was known to the founding fathers. If you can get enough people to vote for you and your friends, then all of the checks and balances will eventually fail against you, because in the end they’re all dependent on the populace not voting for people who corrupt the system. It probably wouldn’t have seemed plausible t…

Is your argument that when a political party hold all major branches of government that it is implicitly corrupt? Or are you arguing that one side is corrupt and the other is not?

Is there a theoretical situation where a single party gaining control is simply the will of the voters? That appears to be a potential valid outcome.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#622

Post by slowhadoken »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #245
slowhadoken wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The Vanguard Group (which all own each other) are private equity firms No, they’re not. (They have private equity arms. Those are not the arms that own e.g. public stock in NBCUniversal.) > Do you work for them as an employee or consultant? No, I never have.

BlackRock, State Street, and the Vanguard Group all own substantial shares in each other. Honestly, I feel like you're not communicating in good faith so have a good day.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#623

Post by collingreen »

facile3232 wrote: post #484
cvz wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you don't see "free speech" used for those causes isn't because they don't rely on free speech. It's because advocacy for them is so clearly protected as free speech that it isn't even a question. There have been times when that protection was a question in the U.S., like when protesting wars or segregation laws. Without the right to say something, there is no legal way to organize or to demand any other r…

> Without the right to say something, there is no legal way to organize or to demand any other right. Americans don't do this, though. They don't demand better. They accept shitty governance and say "at least I voted". And frankly I don't think they ever will. So I say, fuck it, let's just all accept that government is shitty and mostly exists to squeeze us for money. We can finally stop acting like it's representati…

Maybe some of us don't want to devolve into cutting off people's heads and asking questions later?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#624

Post by wrs »

coolhand2120 wrote: post #621
wrs wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we’re experiencing is a group exploiting the biggest vulnerability in the American system, one that was known to the founding fathers. If you can get enough people to vote for you and your friends, then all of the checks and balances will eventually fail against you, because in the end they’re all dependent on the populace not voting for people who corrupt the system. It probably wouldn’t have seemed plausible t…

Is your argument that when a political party hold all major branches of government that it is implicitly corrupt? Or are you arguing that one side is corrupt and the other is not? Is there a theoretical situation where a single party gaining control is simply the will of the voters? That appears to be a potential valid outcome.

In order: no, of course not; neither side is angelic but only one is corrupt and incompetent at a historic level; and yes, the fatal vulnerability in the system is that a demagogue can win a valid election, allowing them to ignore the safeguards and destroy the system.

The issue is not that a single party has control; it’s that a single person has control, having purged that party of all disloyalty or contradiction, and is now proceeding to remake the entire government according to their rather erratic whims, with very little effective restraint.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#625

Post by [deleted] »

FilosofumRex wrote: post #598
amitport wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Trump is merely doing what he has been paid to do by pro-Israeli zionist lobby - who apparently were the highest bidders" The concept of blaming the Jews on everything wrong in one's country is not new, and it never ends well.

[dead]

[deleted]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#626

Post by FlyingSnake »

sega_sai wrote: post #78

As a person who lived in the States for a bit, and listened to a lot of news, I remember always this almost fawning over the Founding Fathers, checks and balances and great American constitution. It is remarkable, how easy it all goes, and most people don't do anything (i.e. out of 100 top law firms, only a handful joined the lawsuit against the government, etc.)

My thoughts exactly.

I’ve lived in the USA and saw the Iowa caucus and election process up close. For a country that was the self proclaimed arbitrator of democracy all over the world, I’m shocked how fragile their own checks-and-balances system is. The lack of opposition to this complete takeover is astounding. I hope USA survives this phase and comes out stronger and more resilient to further such events.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#627

Post by amitport »

FilosofumRex wrote: post #598
amitport wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Trump is merely doing what he has been paid to do by pro-Israeli zionist lobby - who apparently were the highest bidders" The concept of blaming the Jews on everything wrong in one's country is not new, and it never ends well.

[dead]

I sense a lot Jewsphobia from you. Miriam Adelson is an American who happen to be Jewish, and has many many disagreements with the state of Israel. Are you going to classify everyone who does not seek the destruction of Israel as the pro-Israel Zionist lobby?. A bit Freudian of you to associate some Jewish woman some shadow Kabal.

Jewish being targeted is like canary in a mine, never ends well.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#628

Post by someothherguyy »

amitport wrote: post #593
someothherguyy wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of other reasons they could have voted the way they did? https://navigatorresearch.org/2024-post-election-survey-the-...

I haven't listed the reasons I am pointing the underlying lack of internal critisism in the democractic party and their supporters. The democractic party was terrible in regards to many issues many people cared about. You should stop caring about Trump and care about what people care about.

> You should stop caring about Trump and care about what people care about.

Not sure what you mean? All I shared was a set of exit polls?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#629

Post by kleton »

potamic wrote: post #619
kleton wrote: post #559

I remember when the last administration jailed Douglass Mackey for tweeting

He created fake election campaign posters enticing people to cast their vote via some phone number. I think it's a little disingenuous to say he was jailed for tweeting. It's like saying someone charged with a DUI was charged for "driving their car around".

Chipping away a pillar always starts with something that you can say was a good reason.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#630

Post by JumpCrisscross »

slowhadoken wrote: post #604
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fox News -> Disney Nope [1]. [1] https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/walt-disney-company-acquire...

You're right Disney doesn't own own Fox News but BlackRock, State Street, and the Vanguard Group are significant institutional shareholders in Fox Corporation, the parent company of Fox News Media. At this point you should realize my question isn't naive or "stupid".

> BlackRock, State Street, and the Vanguard Group are significant institutional shareholders in Fox Corporation

How much control do they have? Have you heard of the Murdochs?

> At this point you should realize my question isn't naive or "stupid"

If you said television media, it would have still been wrong, but not stupid. (Because it depends on understanding how voting control and passive vs active investing works, none of which is common knowledge.) Generalising to all media, most of which isn’t publicly owned, is.

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