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'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#621

Post by lucb1e »

deeg wrote: post #148

To play somewhat of a devils advocate, 30 years ago this article could have been titled the tyranny of the internet. Is this much different from that.

You'd be right if, 30 years ago, people were required to download proprietary software and run that on a locked-down computer (you don't get to have administrator-level access to it) in order to do simple things like pay a parking meter

Internet is (increasingly: was) an open system that you can connect to on your own terms. Browsers do your bidding, for the most part anyway and you can switch if you don't like one of them. However, you can't simply install an open source version of Google Play Services on your phone and if the Deutsche Bahn app doesn't work for you, there is no alternative that you can install to talk to their server and buy that train ticket (no equivalent to installing a different browser aka 'user agent')

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#622

Post by ryandrake »

scarface_74 wrote: post #438
ryandrake wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t people just print their boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport? Or worst case, use the kiosks at the airports which print passes? Very few of the passengers in line ahead of me are using their phones.

What airline are you flying and in what country? And who has printers at home anymore? My wife and I fly quite often and mostly Delta - over a dozen times a year. Very few people still use paper tickets.

Just US domestic flights. Most people just have the paper passes. They are guaranteed to work. And I guess I just assumed everyone with a computer had some sort of printer. If not, how do they, you know, print things out? I use my printer constantly for things like forms I have to mail, printing out documentation to read later, hobby stuff…

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#623

Post by Marsymars »

pqtyw wrote: post #141
joshdavham wrote: post #127

I’m fascinated by this phenomenon of apps proposing solutions that are far worse than the previous existing solutions. For example: 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. 3. Duolingo is worse than language classes. 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. 5. Etc It really makes me frustrated as someone who builds software and generally thinks…

> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is muc…

> Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer.

You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines.

I never even bother checking-in in advance of arriving at the airport. I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins to incentivize people to pay to choose a different seats. I have at various times been assigned to upgraded seats (not upgraded class, but e.g. emergency row, bulkhead, etc.) when checking in at the airport.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#624

Post by otterley »

undersuit wrote: post #513
otterley wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not a condition you are entitled to create or enforce. If you want that to be enshrined in law, speak with your local representatives.

Then I can't pay you for the services you rendered.

I don’t think you understand how the system works. Or perhaps you do, but fantasize that reality were different.

First, in a non-urgent situation, you’re going to be asked about payment prior to service, and they may refuse to treat you if you can’t pay.

Second, in an emergency situation where you’re unable to provide affirmative assent, you’ll be liable for costs under the doctrine of quantum meruit (quasi-contract). If you don’t pay, the provider can sue you, in which case, the court may force you to pay on their terms.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#625

Post by Marsymars »

svelle wrote: post #583
SoftTalker wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the apps could easily detect that parking has ended. They could note your location when you park. When the phone returns to that location, and then moves at driving speed, parking has ended. But they don't because they make more money by profiting from people who forget to "clock out" when they are done parking.

> Of course the apps could easily detect that parking has ended. They could note your location when you park. When the phone returns to that location, and then moves at driving speed, parking has ended. They could at least start with adding proper CarPlay and Android Auto support so you can just end the parking from the infotainment. But I think there can be at most a single engineer working on this app if at all. Up…

> But I think there can be at most a single engineer working on this app if at all.

I assume they’re contracted out to the lowest bidder.

In my city the payment schedule on the app significantly lags the meters/official rates. Fine when prices go up, but pretty annoying to app-users when the app charges more than the official parking rates. Maybe if they get their merchant account sanctioned for too many chargebacks someone will take notice.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#626

Post by bigstrat2003 »

rangestransform wrote: post #191
jrochkind1 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

going back to pre-smartphone but still true, in the US at least, it is generally illegal to park at a broken meter and you can get a ticket -- because otherwise there would be incentive to break the meter so you could park there for free.

This is only an issue because the US somehow became allergic to enforcing vandalism and property crime laws aggressively

Unfortunately, people have bought into the idea that enforcing laws which are disproportionately broken by the socially disadvantaged is tantamount to oppression. Vandalism and property crime tends to be committed by the poor underclass, often by racial minorities to boot. So people don't want to enforce laws against those people, whose lives are already kinda crap, because they think it's just oppressing them further. Unfortunately, while this thinking is well-intentioned it has really cost society in general dearly.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#627

Post by invalidname »

eesmith wrote: post #485
invalidname wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessibility is a great point. In that regard apps often exceed pens in their accessibility support and laws such as the ADA require organizations like banks to comply with accessibility regulation. Just as a disabled person would have a caretaker sign as a proxy for them, such a caretaker could use the app for them in such a case. Better yet. A person who is bedridden or incapacitated could use an app from the conv…

> Just as a disabled person would have a caretaker sign as a proxy for them You should likely be more careful about how your use of "disabled person" as I'm sure you know most disabled people do not have caretakers. Also, the link I gave says 'agent or representative' - a caretaker is not necessarily either of those. My point is that, yes, I would complain if the bank requires everyone to sign with a pen - and so wou…

You're right, accessibility and disability are large and complex subjects with a huge gradient of issues/conditions/situations.

One of the banks I use requires an app since it's an online only bank. I pay lower rates as a result. Does this bar some people from using that bank?

Yes. But as long as other banks exist that shouldn't be a problem. Would it make sense to require that bank to offer branches, phone access etc?

No. Because then it won't be as cheap. Should the regulator make sure banks that provide "full service" exist?

Yes.

I didn't say it's not OK to complain. In fact I gave a personal example in which I chose not to use an app for my sons public transport and as a result am consciously paying more. I did say that:

* Calling it tyranny is nonsense and bad journalism. The entire article is hyperbole and just silly.

* Cheaper pricing and app specific features make sense and are not discriminatory in the vast majority of cases.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#628

Post by zulban »

tdeck wrote: post #216
zulban wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a place to live, you shouldn't carry all your belongings with you in a backpack when you go outside. Similarly, a phone should not be your archive of all your media.

Perhaps I can be patient and explain the underlying concepts here, since they seem to be unintuitive to a small minority of very condescending commenters: 1. I like to have access to my photos and videos while I'm on the go. You never know when the subject of some trip or experience from 2 years ago will come up in conversation, and I'll want to show a photo of it to someone I'm talking to. Since photos and videos do…

If your phone's storage is at 99.994%, you can't blame that on pointless 100mb apps in 2025.

Have fun with that.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#629

Post by JustExAWS »

tdeck wrote: post #493
JustExAWS wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are referring to gate and time changes

And? These are available on google, on the airline's website, and on screens throughout the terminal. Many airlines will send them to you via SMS. There's no need to have a whole app just to check your gate assignment.

Or I could just use an app and get a push notification.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#630

Post by esafak »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #483
scarface_74 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can a PDF automatically update with gate changes and delays?

You’re already at the airport. Just look around, stop staring at the phone.

Why is the old way better? That's just a default bias.
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