This whole story is so bizarre. I honestly can barely wrap my head around it.
It also vaguely reminds me of a Monk episode.
String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
621–630 of 952 posts
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#622By "string" here, we mean one. Not to imply the Zizians aren't embracing some dangerous ideas, but this is the strangest use of "string of killings" I've ever seen. Author could have gone with "wave of violence," but even then they'd be talking about a "wave" of three incidents in three years.
Four killings. The landlord in Villejo, Michelle Zajko's parents Richard and Rita in Pennsylvania, and now the border patrol agent in Vermont.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#623[Former member of that world, roommates with one of Ziz's friends for a while, so I feel reasonably qualified to speak on this.] The problem with rationalists/EA as a group has never been the rationality, but the people practicing it and the cultural norms they endorse as a community. As relevant here: 1) While following logical threads to their conclusions is a useful exercise, each logical step often involves some…
I noticed years ago too that AI doomers and rationalist type were very prone to (infinity * 0 = infinity) types of traps, which is a fairly autistic way of thinking. Humanity long time ago decided that infinity * 0 = 0 for very good practical reasons.
> Humanity long time ago decided that infinity * 0 = 0
I'm guessing you don't mean this in any formal mathematical sense, without context, infinity multiplied by zero isn't formally defined. There could be various formulations and contexts where you could define / calculate something like infinity * zero to evaluate to whatever you want. (e.g. define f(x) := C x and g(x) := 1/x, What does f(x) * g(x) evaluate to in the limit as x goes to infinity? C. And we can interpret f(x) as going to infinity while g(x) goes to zero, so we can use that to justify writing "infinity * 0 = C" for an arbitrary C... )
So, what do you mean by "infinity * 0 = infinity" informally? That humans regard the expected value of (arbitrarily large impact) * (arbitrarily small probability) as zero?
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#624Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
It’s hilarious to me that Roko’s Basilisk maps perfectly to Pascal’s Wager, but they just can’t see it. It’s like any other exclusive religion: your god is made up, ours is real.
like, treatments of it I've seen are explicitly discussed in that context? It's also described as Pascal's mugging.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#625This story just keeps getting more and more bizarre. Reading the charges and supporting affidavits, the whole thing is reading more and more like some sort of Yorgos Lanthimos film. The rationalist connection - a literal sequel to the 2022 events (in turn a sequel to the 2019 CFAR stuff) - is already weird enough. But I can't get over the ridiculousness of the VT situation. I have spent time in that area of VT, and the charged parties must have been acting quite bizarre for the clerk to alert the police. Checking into a motel wearing all black, open carrying does NOT cut it. The phones wrapped in foil is comical, and the fact that they were surveilled over several days is interesting, especially because it reads like the FBI only became aware of their presence after the stop and shootout?
The arresting agent seems pretty interesting, a former risk adjuster who recently successfully led the case against a large inter-state fraud scheme. This may just be the plot of Fargo season 10. Looking forward to the season arc of the FBI trying to understand the "rationalist" community. The episode titled "Roko's Basilisk", with no thematically tied elements, but they manage to turn Yudkowsky into a rat.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#626Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks very much for typing all that out! >These external forcing functions tend to be pretty similar among people of a comparable environment. But the internal equilibria seem to be quite different. So when the external forcing is strong, it tends to pull people in similar directions, and people whose innate tendencies are extreme tend to get pulled along with the majority anyway. But when external forcing is weak (…
A lot of rationalists that go deep are on the autistic spectrum. Their feedback loops are often classic autistic thought traps of people who end up "committing to the bit". Add anxiety to it and you get autistic style rumination loops that go nuts. Edit: Funny enough, when I wrote "autistic thought traps", I thought I just made it up to describe something, but it is common terminology. An AI summary of what they are:…
[deleted]
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#627Is there a grand figure of rationalist philosophy? Someone like a rationalist “Satre” or “Heidegger”?
I think a lot of the weirdness of rational communities comes from them not properly integrating the existing canon of western philosophy and rediscovering pitfalls.
Without the benefit of centuries of discussions it’s easy to come to strange conclusions.
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#628Earlier quoted context omitted.
G.K.Chesterton knew it, 100 years ago: "... insanity is often marked by the dominance of reason and the exclusion of creativity and humour. Pure reason is inhuman. The madman’s mind moves in a perfect, but narrow, circle, and his explanation of the world is comprehensive, at least to him."
So did Fyodor Dostoevsky.
[deleted]
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#629Earlier quoted context omitted.
Calling them a roaming band or "tactical death squad" is giving far too much credit. It is a handful of crazy people who convinced themselves that a couple murders would solve their problems. In particular the attack on border patrol was obviously random and illogical. And the fact that no one was convicted of the Pennsylvania murders seems to reflect more on the police and prosecutors than the intelligence of the pe…
Speaking of random and illogical, what prompted the Border Patrol to stop their car in the first place, I wonder? None of the news stories have elaborated on that.
I don't have a link handy, but they were under surveillance for a full week before they were pulled for a "traffic stop."
Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'
#630[Former member of that world, roommates with one of Ziz's friends for a while, so I feel reasonably qualified to speak on this.] The problem with rationalists/EA as a group has never been the rationality, but the people practicing it and the cultural norms they endorse as a community. As relevant here: 1) While following logical threads to their conclusions is a useful exercise, each logical step often involves some…
It is like they actually managed to install a shitty low precision distilled llm in their brain.
[deleted]