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Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#621

Post by why_at »

joezydeco wrote: post #29
ghc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In addition, the White House has put a hiring freeze in place, prohibiting the replacement of open government positions or the creation of new ones while the administration evaluates reductions in the workforce. The White House plans to release a memorandum with further guidance within 90 days. This has drawn criticism from lawmakers as the FAA has been ramping up controller hiring. https://www.ainonline.com/aviati…

Meanwhile, San Carlos Airport (KSQL, near San Francisco) is going ATC-zero on February 1st. The tower will be unstaffed. https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/CASMATEO/bulletins/... "The FAA has awarded a new contract for air traffic services at SQL to Robinson Aviation (RVA). However, the contract does not include locality pay to account for the high cost of living in the San Francisco Bay Area. As a result, RVA’…

I've been working towards my private pilot license at San Carlos and I don't know what's going to happen if they can't find someone to do this job. The airport can get very busy sometimes and it seems like it could be dangerous to have nobody working the tower.

I sympathize with the ATC workers though. It's ridiculous that they can't pay them a decent wage for the area, there's only two of them as far as I know.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#622

Post by ToucanLoucan »

gosub100 wrote: post #620
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's been "culminating for years" why is this the first time this has happened in 16 years? Or are all the white men just doing that great of a job compensating for their dumbass POC/non-male colleagues? It's not like this is a team effort where one competent employee can cover for others; if an ATC is genuinely unqualified, shit is going to go wrong immediately. Your grievance politics are nonsensical on their fa…

If you didn't deliberately misinterpret the word "it" you would have nothing to dispute.

Feel free to correct my interpretation.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#623

Post by Spooky23 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #342
addicted wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t you identify all these easily found regulations then? There’s a whole YIMBY movement, for example, that has identified specific regulations that are no longer valid and have made tremendous strides in proving and changing these regulations for almost universally better outcomes. So where are all these specific regulations that are so terrible and the evidence that they are indeed net negatives. I absolutely…

> Why don’t you identify all these easily found regulations then? That was rude, and didn't at all speak to OP's point. They indicated that not all regulations are equal. Some are important and put into place because people died without them. Others are put into place for less important reasons. And the fact that _some_ regulations were removed doesn't mean that "ones written in blood" necessarily were. There are def…

It’s not rude. Making some inane point contrasting FAA regulations to HR rules is a stupid comparison feeding the nihilist attitude that everything is broken, except for what I think.

Air regulations are “written in blood”. Nobody claimed that OPM rules about HR were.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#624

Post by 0xffff2 »

xienze wrote: post #601
coddingtonbear wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would, if the system is working, be the blood that future regulations are written in. That these kinds of things happen so rarely came to us at a cost of past lives.

OK then, what regulation do you think was missing that could have prevented this

I mean, that's pretty obvious right? It's absolutely insane to have VFR traffic passing through the final approach corridor, especially at night.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#625

Post by kranke155 »

A real tragedy.

Here on HN someone mentioned after a recent (last year) near miss that the US system was overloading the system and that some tragedy might be incoming. Maybe of the most insightful and heart breaking “competency crisis” related posts I’ve encountered.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#626

Post by bolognafairy »

vman81 wrote: post #377

If anyone needs a palate cleanser after listening to a depressing ATC recording, I can recommend this heartwarming first time solo flying teenager dealing with her landing gear coming off after takeoff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ5q7Iv5wTM

I’ve watched this countless times and I’ll watch it countless times more.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#628

Post by bolognafairy »

htgb wrote: post #306
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://archives.broadcastify.com/44114/20250129/20250129200... contains the ATC feed in addition to the PAT-25 (helo) radio. ~5:41 mark 5342 is given instructions for circling to 33. ~6:45 mark PAT-25 reports Memorial ~7:06 mark tower gives PAT-25 traffic advisory about 5342 and PAT-25 reports traffic in sight and requests visual separation ~8:12 mark tower asks PAT-25 if they have the CRJ in sight. PAT-25 again rep…

I'm impressed by your, and their, hearing comprehension here! Granted, English isn't my native language but even with concentration I struggle to hear what they say.

Previous experience with aviation radio comms helps a lot. Typical radio comms essentially follow a template, and it’s done in a way where you can safely approximate a LOT (…just not numbers). But the…phraseology if you will, can be approximated quite easily with experience.

Funnily enough, American ATC / pilots are, I find, a lot more frequently ‘fast and loose’ compared to other areas, even English-speaking ones. Countless recordings online of EALD pilots being befuddled by some self-identified hotshot air traffic controller using overly casual / sloppy language, sometimes resulting in near misses or worse.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#629

Post by xenadu02 »

jumpman_miya wrote: post #539
venusenvy47 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been avoiding the typical outrageous statements from the current POTUS for many years, but his comments at his press conference today, about how DEI hiring could be responsible for this accident, are just unbelievable. And all of a sudden it seems to have made him to decide that the FAA needs a director today.

[flagged]

Citation needed. "DEI did it" is just the new conservative buzzword for everything.

You should be clear what you mean by saying this is DEI: you (and POTUS) are saying "they hired too many female and/or black air traffic controllers, passing over superior white male applicants, thus leading to this accident".

Air traffic controllers go through objective standards-based training and testing. Are you proposing that the FAA is applying lower standards based on gender or skin color?

There is and has been a shortage of applicants for the past few years. Many controllers are over-worked with excess hours and little to no vacation time. Shifts are often under-staffed.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#630

Post by xienze »

0xffff2 wrote: post #624
xienze wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK then, what regulation do you think was missing that could have prevented this

I mean, that's pretty obvious right? It's absolutely insane to have VFR traffic passing through the final approach corridor, especially at night.

Apparently not obvious enough for anyone in the FAA ever, over numerous decades, to think it can’t be safely done.
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