Live data from Hacker News

It's not a crime if we do it with an app

pluralistic.net

621–630 of 640 posts

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#621
post #610
post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many mergers were squashed. The M&A market shrank considerably. There’s only so much they can do as far as bringing and prosecuting cases in four years.

M&A market shrink because interest rates went up drastically while expectations of companies remained in the stratosphere in my opinion. Lina Khan had little to do with it. What significant mergers were squashed that made a difference? What significant monopolies were busted?

Doubtful. Most deals aren’t financed with debt.

There are many but off the top of my head Kroger buying Safeway. Visa buying Plaid. Nvidia buying Arm. Didn't they block a cell phone merger? A mattress merger?

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#622
post #615
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Margins aren’t an objective measurement. Margins are easy to manipulate through shell companies and other costs. Just look at PBMs. They all supposedly have small margins. However, once you peel back the layers, you see rebates and kickbacks and all kinds of illegal schemes to hide the real income.

What is your hypothesis in this case? Something like "margins went down because of accounting shenanigans they only figured out a few years ago, surged so much because of price fixing that the accounting shenanigans were not good enough to cover it anymore, and then they figured out new accounting shenanigans to manipulate margins down to the previous low. And all of that in a way that overstated COGS or understated…

More like the shenanigans aren’t new and can move up and down. And there’s coordination between the segments in the chain. How is it that farmers are making less than ever before but the products are more expensive than ever before? Look at spot prices for food commodities like corn going back a decade or two. The price is flat. Why are prices of goods up? Why are companies now less efficient instead of more efficient? There are plenty of ways that middle men bloat costs. Profit margins are after expenses. Load up a company with debt. Sell all the real estate and pay rent. Bloat executive salaries. Play games with shell companies and other middlemen. It’s not rocket science.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#623
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For money supply to be inflationary it has to increase demand or reduce supply for a given product. It sounds neat but there’s little evidence of that occurring on more than a temporary basis during covid. But covid also caused supply shocks. It seems that what happened is covid showed companies what they could get away with both because of decades of consolidation and because of new ways of colluding.

More dollars in circulation chasing the same supply of products = increased demand for those products, in dollar terms. I'm not looking specifically at the COVID spike (which, indeed, seems to be over from a monetary policy perspective), I'm looking at the longer term continuous exponential increase in money supply.

But those extra dollars aren’t with consumers. Otherwise, yes. That’s where the money supply causes inflation argument falls apart — at least for this case.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#624
post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google. Microsoft. Facebook. If it weren’t for antitrust, there’d be a lot fewer cell phone companies or airlines. I mean, it’s harder to name an industry where there hasn’t been consolidation. The only thing stopping it is the law. Consolidation was basically illegal until the 1980s. If you wanted to grow, you had to compete.

Wrong. Also, none of the companies you listed are monopolies.

Google was literally declared a monopoly by a court recently. Facebook and Apple both are oligopolies or monopolies in certain market segments. Apple has a monopoly on app store and on device payments. These things are bad enough that they’re being litigated.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#625
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More dollars in circulation chasing the same supply of products = increased demand for those products, in dollar terms. I'm not looking specifically at the COVID spike (which, indeed, seems to be over from a monetary policy perspective), I'm looking at the longer term continuous exponential increase in money supply.

But those extra dollars aren’t with consumers. Otherwise, yes. That’s where the money supply causes inflation argument falls apart — at least for this case.

Maybe not at T=0, depending on how you look at money creation. But the "extra" dollars, wherever they originate, will eventually be spent, and will eventually diffuse out to every part of the economy. We're not printing trillions of dollars, locking them in a treasure chest, and burying them deep underground so that they may never move.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Option 3 - You hire enough people to cover general demand, have surge prices to lower demand when there's not enough drivers, and charge prices for normal/lower demand that allows you to make sure everyone you have on duty makes at least minimum wage. This is just a rehash of Option 1. The point of surge pricing is to get more drivers to drive during peak times. If you're instead using that money to pay other peopl…

> Minimum wage laws in general have never protected anyone. If there is another job available to you that pays more than minimum wage and is otherwise on equally favorable terms, you would have taken that one regardless of whether a lower paying job is available. That "if" there is doing a lot of work. I think you underestimate how many people out there are in a situation where it's the job they have or the street. N…

> That "if" there is doing a lot of work. I think you underestimate how many people out there are in a situation where it's the job they have or the street.

That's making the opposite case from the one you want. You take away the lower paying job when it was the only one available and now they're on the street because there is no alternative.

"Fortunately", in more cases than not the "if" was the actual. This is geometry: If there is one viable employer within 50 miles of where you live then statistically there are four within 100 miles, 9 within 150 miles and 16 within 200 miles, because area is pi r^2. So if you take away the first job there is a large chance that there is a second one with a much worse commute. But the commute is going to more than eliminate any value from getting paid slightly more, which is why they didn't take that job to begin with.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If these are the upfront conditions, why is that an issue? Because they might have both preferred 25 hours with flexibility to a forced choice between 40 inflexible hours or 10 flexible ones. > uber's model doesn't seem to be profitable if they have to pay and employ with reasonable conditions. Uber is an app. Their primary cost is paying drivers. They're not going to fail because you imposed this inflexibility on…

> But "have fewer drivers" is those people losing their jobs, which isn't really helping them out. Laws that regulate how people can be treated by employers have always been a balance between _some_ people having it worse (ex, their jobs not being available) so that the _vast_ majority of people have it better. The same things is true of things like safety regulations. It costs more to be safe, and you have to charge…

> Laws that regulate how people can be treated by employers have always been a balance between _some_ people having it worse (ex, their jobs not being available) so that the _vast_ majority of people have it better.

Not all of them. For example, a law that requires companies that agree to pay workers for services rendered to actually pay them has no obvious mechanism to destroy jobs and may even create jobs as people become willing to do work when they otherwise wouldn't have trusted the employer to pay them with no enforcement mechanism.

The types of rules you're talking about are typically lobbied for by specific groups to gain advantage for themselves at the expense not of the employer but of their competition for employment, i.e. other workers. For example, the passage of minimum wage laws came about during the Jim Crow era because what white workers wanted from discrimination was to prevent black workers from "taking their jobs" but what the discrimination was actually causing was for the black workers to accept lower pay and then receive the jobs anyway. The law was motivated by the desire to prohibit the latter and thereby cause the black workers to lose their jobs because then the discrimination would manifest in the hiring decision rather than the wages.

This is the same category of thing which is happening with Uber, except that the groups aren't black people and white people, they're part-time Uber drivers and full-time ones. The full-time ones want the part-time ones out of the market, so they keep lobbying for laws to make casual acceptance of fares more burdensome.

> The same things is true of things like safety regulations. It costs more to be safe, and you have to charge more or hire less if you're going to have them. But overall, society is better for them (even though some people no longer have jobs).

The premise of safety regulations is that people are busy and don't have time to read through statistical studies to determine if a more expensive product is worth the cost because it's sufficiently safer, so the government should do the evaluation and then require the ones that are worth the cost.

The problem is the government doesn't require the ones that are worth the cost, they require that ones whose manufacturers or other interest groups have the best lobbyists even when they're not worth the cost, and then net-negative rules accumulate over time. Soon you have a thicket of rules where the vast majority aren't worth the cost, and a tiny minority that are but are mostly things the market would have demanded even without the mandate. This is a big reason why, for example, it's so expensive to build housing in the US and high rents are causing homelessness, preventing family formation and transferring wealth from working people to landlords.

Notice also the scam here: New "safety standards" are passed but they don't apply to existing buildings, so people continue living in the existing buildings (which by this logic are unsafe) because now newer buildings have been made prohibitively expensive. This benefits landlords, not safety, but attempts to remove the rules are met with claims of impacting safety.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not an option though. The option uber gives is "maybe 25, maybe not, you'll find out on the day". It's 25 when it's 25. Which you can still have a preference for when the alternative is 10, or the alternative is "40 hours but your hours are 9PM to 1AM and then 5AM to 9AM". > That's still "how do we keep uber in business". Uber is still in business when they require you to work split shifts in the wee hours.…

> Uber is better than taxi medallion cartels Uber is _different_ than the taxi system. Not all taxi systems are "taxi medallion cartels", even in cities with taxi medallions. And, when it started, Uber was worse than the taxis in a lot of cities in many ways. It's gotten better since then, but pretty much exclusively to try to prevent the cities from throwing them out on their asses.

If Uber wasn't better than taxis from the start then why would people use or drive for Uber instead of taxis?

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transit problem is largely a housing problem because mass transit needs a threshold amount of population density to function and that level is below what you get when the majority of the land area is zoned exclusively for single-family homes. But that's not something you can solve overnight -- it takes time to build stuff like that -- so people are still going to have to decide what to do today. Moreover, even if…

For sure, but we still have a massive proportion of what could be served by Mass Transit in the States all dedicated to cars, which is why gridlock is basically the American commuting experience in one word. I just spent a week in a major city visiting my employer's office for some face time with everyone, and every morning was started by spending about 20 minutes stuck in traffic, even though my hotel was only a sho…

More than three quarters of Americans live in suburban or rural areas. If you tried to run an hourly bus down a suburban street in the middle of the day, it would have one passenger. You can't run bus service at the density of the suburbs, with single passengers it's just a slower, more expensive and less efficient Uber.

Then you get traffic congestion in the city because those people come into the city in their cars. But you can't just add mass transit where the traffic is because those people still need to traverse the part of their path where it isn't.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't prosecute petty crime in America. Yes we do; at rates that horrify the rest of the world. It's very expensive. You can find a lot of detail here: [0]. > Most people in the U.S. criminal legal system are not accused of serious crimes; more often, they are charged with misdemeanors or non-criminal violations. Yet even low-level offenses, like technical violations of probation and parole, can lead to incarcer…

> Most people in the U.S. criminal legal system are not accused of serious crimes; more often, they are charged with misdemeanors or non-criminal violations I've probably committed misdemeanors; I don't think I've committed a felony. If misdemeanors are committed at a higher rate than felonies, and felonies are prosecuted at a higher frequency than misdemeanors, most prosecutions will be misdemeanors and most uncaugh…

> most prosecutions will be misdemeanors

So... We do prosecute petty crime? Ok then.

And since America has far more prisoners than basically any other country... We're prosecuting a lot of them.

> It's difficult to call probation or parole violations "low-level offenses" without knowing the underlying offense.

Feel free to read through the link instead of just the quoted section. There's no shortage of statistics and source data in the Methodology link.

Post reply on HN