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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#622Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why stop there? Because we want to, and we can. I don't get how HN consistently fails to understand the actual social and political process by which regulations are made. I constantly see this argument which effectively boils down to "if you ban a thing, you will also need to ban everything else, which is absurd, so you shouldn't ban anything". But in real life we can choose what we ban. Everything is a trade-off;…
> If you get caught driving a getaway car for an armed robber, you are going to jail. Bad analogy. Better one is that your a taxi driver and someone who committed a crime hops into your car for a ride, then you’re found guilty by association.
Well in Telegram's case the idea is that they knowingly provide taxi services to those criminals and do supposedly nothing when it's reported to them because they are "too small" to moderate everything
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#623Earlier quoted context omitted.
Durov 2024 interview, https://www.happyscribe.com/public/the-tucker-carlson-podcas... [text] & https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-interview-pavel... [video] > Telegram has been used by protesters in places like Hong Kong, Belarus, Kazakhstan, even in Barcelona back in the day. It's been a tool for the opposition to a large extent. But it doesn't really matter whether it's opposition or the ruling party that…
Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that they're too small to provide moderation. But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds and restricts or kills the account. So they can and do moderate content. It's just that accounts can get flagged for CSAM hundreds of times and Telegram…
> But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds [...]
In my experience it's the channel's admins who respond, not Telegram's.
If that's the case then CSAM not getting actioned is probably just channel admins allowing content that they approve of.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#624Earlier quoted context omitted.
Telegram and cryptocurrency has single handedly responsible for the recent drug epidemic, sex blackmail rings in South Korea. Cant say I have good things to say about Telegram founders and operators. Its not some innocent "free speech" messenger app, its sinister
You won't believe for what are responsible paper money printed by central banks. As for those South Korea-related stories, the blame is partially on the government. For example, an operator of a website selling illegal videos got only 18 months in that country [1]. [1] https://www.chinadailyhk.com/hk/article/135865
> You won't believe for what are responsible paper money printed by central banks.
100 times yes. So where are laws and regulations for the money?! Oh wait. They exist :)
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#625Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well much like the owner of omegle found out you can't provide platforms for criminal activities and make no effort to curb it. It only takes a 30 second google before you find telegram rooms offering all kinds of illegal stuff. You don't find that on Twitter. Twitter is atleast mildly moderated. Telegram could have moderation built in to catch illegal activities but it chooses to do nothing. See the difference?
Telegram is end-to-end encrypted in private chats, the Telegram team doesn't even know what people are discussing. Same should happen with Whatsapp or Signal. Should Whatsapp or Signal be accountable for what terrorists talk in private?
> Telegram is end-to-end encrypted in private chats
Not by default (unlike the other services you've mentioned )?
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#626Earlier quoted context omitted.
Underrated analogy I don't know anyone who uses TG "secret chats". (I tried to convert one friend but then there was some buggy stuff that also lost us long chat history so we reverted)
Sad story I use a single secret chat, probably because I was conditioned by the early https era to like the green lock symbol
I use other chat clients. Encryption is by default and no clumsy UI or lost chats yet. Proves it's possible if TG really cared;)
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#627Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not being able to decrypt chats that he has no keys for… Except he (or his corporation) has keys for almost all initiated chats on the Telegram network. Only the private chats are E2EE and they're not default and rather inconvenient because they don't sync between devices (unlike Signal's E2EE chats).
Not really no. > To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that are controlled by different legal entities spread across different jurisdictions. The relevant decryption keys are split into parts and are never kept in the same place as the data they protect. As a result, several cour…
That's funny, because some time ago (well, some years ago) I swore people were crapping on telegram's encryption and telling it was almost fake
But if it was so weak then various intelligence agencies wouldn't be bothering with it
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#628Earlier quoted context omitted.
And my intuition is that Telegram is going to become banned in Russia soon, as Youtube is being banned now and Telegram is the last popular application where you can find the content about war, protests or elections that govt doesn't like.
> And my intuition is that Telegram is going to become banned in Russia soon It had already happened with extreme humiliation of responsible agencies. > as Youtube is being banned now It's not banned, it's throttled because google kept abusing backbone networks once their CDNs had started to burn down and claiming that this is totally fine and fixable with direct BGP peerings with ISPs (yeah, right) It works just fin…
Do you have any confirmation for what you are claiming? E.g. the claim that all ISPs simultaneously voluntarily decided to throttle Youtube to reduce foreign traffic? It seems to me that you either don't know the details or are simply trolling.
> It's not banned, it's throttled because google kept abusing backbone networks once their CDNs had started to burn down and claiming that this is totally fine and fixable with direct BGP peerings with ISPs (yeah, right)
> It works just fine on mobile internet connection where traffic shaping is an inherent feature and it only works like shit on broadband where ISPs are only capable of sending TCP RST once the queue is over the limit.
This is not true. The connections to googlevideo are throttled by government-operated DPI, not by ISPs. You can verify this by sending following request from a Russian residential or mobile IP address to a Russian hosting provider Selectel:
curl --connect-to ::speedtest.selectel.ru https://manifest.googlevideo.com/100MB -k -o/dev/null
curl https://speedtest.selectel.ru/100MB -k -o/dev/null
Also the information about mobile connection not being throttled is outdated and incorrect. Nowadays mobile connections are throttled as well.
The information that all ISPs voluntarily decided to throttle Youtube is implausible. Why would they throttle the speed to allow their competitors to lure away their clients?
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#629Earlier quoted context omitted.
One detail that's missing from the English article is why he got arrested. The French article mentions: Why was he under threat of a search warrant? The Justice considers that the absence of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable numbers, cryptocurrencies...) makes him an accomplice to drug trafficking, child-crime offenses and swindling.
Just because he is the CEO doesn’t mean he is directly liable. The company is a separate entity. I don’t see anyone arresting Elon or other CEOs because of “not enough moderation.” Most actions are to block platform access. There must be something else for sure.
I don’t know in France, but at least in Italy companies are not a shield for penal responsibility; crimes are always committed by persons. If a company does something criminal, someone is responsible for that decision within the company, and that could be the CEO.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#630From Telegram sources: >Pavel Durov faces up to 20 years in prison in France. The trial will take place very soon – sources close to the investigation. In addition to drug trafficking, he is accused of collaborating with an organized crime group, covering up for pedophiles, fraud and money laundering. I don't know how reliable this is, but I've seen in 3-4 sources that he's arrested for terrorism, child abuse, drug t…
I would be very surprised if the _trial_ was to take place "very soon". (Trials hardly ever take place "very soon" in France.) However, I could imagine him staying in custody while being investigated for a couple days, then quickly facing some level of judge to decide whether he has to stay in jail or can be released. Once this is done, don't expect a formal trial until multiple months (and most realistically, at lea…
> I could imagine him staying in custody while being investigated for a couple days, then quickly facing some level of judge to decide whether he has to stay in jail or can be released.
I think the original link mentioned exactly that, and it would be done over the weekend