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DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

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Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#621

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

matwood wrote: post #88
bick_nyers wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the underlying issue is a lack of supply. However, if a landlord is commanding a 30% profit margin on a non-luxury apartment then I think they are contributing to the problem (to be clear, I'm not insinuating anyone in this thread is doing this). I think the only objective way to tell if it's priced too high is by the profit margin, but of course even that can be inflated if e.g. a developer took a huge…

You know what gets developers excited about building? Someone getting consistent 30% profit margins. Now, government just has to get out of the way and let housing be built.

> You know what gets developers excited about building? Someone getting consistent 30% profit margins.

It's super subdued excitement.

> Now, government just has to get out of the way and let housing be built.

Homeowner voting blocs aren't commonly considered to be government.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#622

Post by AnthonyMouse »

suslik wrote: post #592
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote work and offshore work aren't inherently the same thing. If you're a company with offices in New York City and San Francisco and you hire someone in San Diego or Rochester, you're still dealing with the laws of the same states and federal government. Even someone in Massachusetts or Texas is probably not a big deal. But if you want to hire someone in Poland or Korea, do you even know what their laws are ? How…

All these issues (except, perhaps, the need to switch to asynchronous way of working due to time zones) are these days solved by specialized services for a flat, and not too high, fee; honestly, if there’s a will to hire internationally, there is a way.

How is a third party service going to solve language barriers or prevent a random foreign government from having or passing new laws that cause problems for you?

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#623

Post by enriquec »

bunderbunder wrote: post #413
enriquec wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or stop stealing everyones money through inflation?

All models are wrong. But the model that suggests that inflation is directly controlled a knob that policymakers can turn on a whim is incredibly useful to the people who stand to profit the most from deflationary policies.

And the opposite has been the excuse of every abusive government in history.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#624

Post by mullingitover »

rangestransform wrote: post #606
mullingitover wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better yet, we can just copy Singapore or Vienna's public housing systems and actually have desirable public housing. Arguably, the reason we don't already have this is because a large contingent of the voting public has been conditioned to believe that if the government does something well, it's communism, so the government should do anything well.

a large contingent of the voting public, the same contigent that support public housing and are against private housing, see enforcing nuisance and public order laws as (race|class)ist. until enforcing laws against disadvantaged minorities in their own homes and neighbourhoods becomes acceptable again, public housing with under-market tenants will continue to rapidly degrade into hovels like NYCHA.

I don't think anyone beyond extreme outliers is 'against private housing,' and disadvantaged minorities themselves want police protection in their own communities. What they don't want, and what nobody wants, is bad policing. So if you build mixed income public housing and do policing right, it just might work. We should try it.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#625

Post by bobthepanda »

theshackleford wrote: post #562
metadat wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the interesting recommendation. The book you referenced is from 2005, has the game evolved in the past 20 years? My friends who work in HR seem to think so.

The problem is, it can change rapidly on the ground. We actully had a good HR team in a previous role, that really did work to support the employees, would push back against the org etc where approripiate (including on things like salary). Financials in our parent company dipped, and rather than address their issues they went to war with the acquisitions they had picked up over the last five years or so to try and sq…

the best way to see how companies respond to things is to see what happens during the bad times.

it's easy to be good when things are going easy. it's hard to be good when times are hard.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#626

Post by oooyay »

coredog64 wrote: post #577
oooyay wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competitive markets keep things within a tolerance, imo. If the average is $4.10 then you can expect the price to vary up and down by some amount depending on location and other things provided. What RealPage does is distinct because it assures prices are always above and by orders of magnitude what they should be. It also achieves that through private communication which I think is generally accepted as a problem.

Order of magnitude is generally accepted as starting at 10x. Are you saying rents are 10-100x higher because of RealPage?

You're right, order of magnitude wasn't the right choice of words. They're 3-4x what they should be, and RealPage is responsible for a sizeable portion on its own, which is saying something.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#627

Post by rcpt »

bunderbunder wrote: post #313
rcpt wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do that by building enough houses to make housing unattractive to investment firms

Alternatively, we adjust the tax code to reflect the instinct that people should deserve to keep a larger percentage of money when they actually worked to earn it, and that income that's essentially free to people who already have lots of money should maybe be taxed at a higher rate. I realize this is a spicy take, but we've really got to get away from this thing where we advantage passive income for wealthy landowne…

Yes a Land value Tax also would be great

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#628

Post by bryan2 »

andrewmutz wrote: post #531
wh0knows wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This definitely requires some citations. There is no evidence that you are presenting that supports the 2-5% claim. I don’t think you are fully understanding the impact of price collusion or the suit presented here. The DOJ very clearly thinks this is anticompetitive.

Honestly the strongest argument I've heard that these algorithms are anticompetitive is "The DoJ thinks they are". So maybe there's some non-public information of anticompetitive behavior. We don't know how many housing units use Realpage pricing algorithms in 2024, but in 2017 when Realpage bought the tech, it was being used in 1.5 million rentals ( https://www.realpage.com/news/realpage-to-acquire-lease-rent... ) a…

If this source is correct it’s 7/10 in PHX https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/antitrust-enforcers-the-r...

They’re also super glib about it online https://www.realpage.com/analytics/phoenix-apartment-rent-gr...

IMHO automated price raising should be considered problematic or at least suspicious.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#629

Post by mjx0 »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #444
sithadmin wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just by algorithm. In the US, many large employers utilize 'The Work Number' by Equifax for employment verification services, and share details about individual employees as granular as individual paycheck disbursements. This information is visible to other employers that buy in to the scheme, and obviously favors the employer in salary negotiations with a candidate.

Right, this indirection seems to give them a "throat to choke" the next time this goes to court. Opt out: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze

I wish I could opt out. Unfortunately, my company refuses to provide such information except through The Work Number. So, the next time I apply to rent a home, I'd be out of luck with income or employment verification.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#630

Post by thy77 »

Hi. Anyway to get ahead of this? Letter to apt. Manager. "Hi, I just rented here. Did you use this software? Please knock 10% off the price in my lease." Nail this to the door or 100 others in the complex? Or too late now? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
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