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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#621

Post by rendall »

GordonS wrote: post #597
rendall wrote: post #454

[flagged]

No, this is propaganda - every MSM outlets appends that biased "disclaimer" to every story they run on Gaza. Do they append "according to US-backed Israel" when parroting Israeli propaganda verbatim? No. And still, the UN says the Hamas' numbers are realistic, and the Lancet says they are realistic[0]. Meanwhile, some parts of the IDF claim every death of a military-age male was the death of a "terrorist". [0] https:…

You could address the accusation directly rather than diverting with labels of "bias" and "propaganda". Tell us all how Hamas, as an incorruptible bastion of truth and honor, has neither incentive nor opportunity to inflate civilian deaths.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#622

Post by rendall »

GordonS wrote: post #618
rendall wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be correct were the war about retaliation. It is not retaliation. It is a military operation. It is a military operation to remove an implacable enemy who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure. This is an enemy who would kill more than 30,000 Israeli citizens if it could. Hamas would kill every single Israeli if it acquired the…

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far . > who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbo…

> 30-50k... so far...

... according to Hamas.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#623

Post by reducesuffering »

GordonS wrote: post #604
gataca wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide…

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas The UN and Lancet [0] believe the numbers are credible. Let's not forget there are likely 10k+ civilians still burried under rubble too. > Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists Come on, you are not commenting in good faith. There is zero credible evidence that any rape took place, Hamas have staunchly denied it, and from what re…

What happened to “believe women?”

You think in a sudden 1143 person civilian homicidal attack, going door to door, no rape happened?

“UN team says rape, gang rape likely occurred during Hamas attack on Israel”

UN: “The mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children during their time in captivity.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-team-says-rape-...

https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploa...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#624

Post by hef19898 »

smcin wrote: post #587
hef19898 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof forbthe claim about the US bombing the Netherlands please.

GP is referring to the "Hague Invasion Act", aka "American Service-Members' Protection Act of 2002" passed under GW Bush to authorize a US invasion of The Hague, to protect American officials and military personnel from prosecution [by the ICC] or rescue them from custody. Originally drafted in response to the Iraq invasion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

Oh dear... I knew the US is one of the few to not recognize the ICC. Never heard of Section 2008. The wording so interesting, especially part covering also people of NATO allies: So theoretically, the US could sent Seal Team Six to extract a member of the Dutch armed forces from The Hague, and attack a NATO member in order to free a citizen from said NATO member. Theoretically, right after Seal Team Six delivered a wanted war criminal to The Hague. Well, I guess at least the strike is easy to position in that case...

Thanks for the throw back to the times of bad George W. policy and laws, almost forgot how bad it was over everything that happened since 2016...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#625

Post by GordonS »

gryzzly wrote: post #617
GordonS wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going by Israeli TV, Telegram channels and polls, unfortunately it really does seem like a large proportion of Israelis think of Palestinians as sub-human bugs to be crushed. Already we've seen settlers building an "outpost" inside Gaza, while Israeli soldiers watch on. Meanwhile, Israeli civilians block aid to starving children, again while the IDF watch.

and any reason you decided not to answer the second part of the question?

Do you mean this part?

> what interest Palestinians have in regard to Israelis from your point of view?

I'm not sure I understand the question? Is it "how to Palestinians feel about Israelis?". If so, I don't know, but I can imagine how I might feel if I'd been dehumanised my entitre life; lived under brutal occupation/blockade my entire life, seen siblings carted off to be tortured in Israeli dungeons, had my father shot in front of me etc. Perhaps Israel should stop stealing land and homes, and stop their institutionalised dehumanisation of Palestinians; many Israelis seem to need de-radicalising.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#627

Post by bawolff »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #576
shiroiushi wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Northern Ireland/UK was not similar to Gaza/Israel at all. The UK was always Northern Ireland's government and controlled all state functions. A better comparison is Mainland China/Taiwan: according to various outsiders, the two are the same country supposedly, but in reality they function as two different states, with entirely separate governments. The main difference between these situations (aside from Taiwan bein…

> whereas Israel really doesn't want Gaza. Like, if Israel doesn't want the Gaza strip/west bank, then why hasn't there been a two state solution? > The UK was always Northern Ireland's government and controlled all state functions. This is 100% not true, Ulster (the majority of which is in Northern Ireland) was historically the part of Ireland that resisted British/English invasions the most, such that the British b…

> Like, if Israel doesn't want the Gaza strip/west bank, then why hasn't there been a two state solution?

My understanding is support for a 2 state solution is relatively low on both sides. Especially now that things have deteriorated, but even before oct 7 it seemed unlikely.

Even if Israel doesn't want Gaza, they still have an interest in not getting shot at. I don't think they believe that they would be safe from attacks if they left Gaza alone, and based on both history as well as current rhetoric from Palestinian leaders, it doesn't seem like an irrational fear.

> Like, fundamentally, oppressing the nationalist aspirations of the Palestinian people is never, never going to work, and October 7th will happen again and again until the Israeli people realise this, and make attempts towards peace (which the Palestinians should also do, but right now the Israeli's have a lot more power in the situation).

I think a fundamental problem here is historically, israeli overtures towards peace (imperfect as they may have been) have often been met with an increase in violence. Its hard to sell peace to someone when they don't have a lot of reason to believe it will actually result in peace and not increased violence.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#628

Post by rendall »

GordonS wrote: post #618
rendall wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be correct were the war about retaliation. It is not retaliation. It is a military operation. It is a military operation to remove an implacable enemy who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure. This is an enemy who would kill more than 30,000 Israeli citizens if it could. Hamas would kill every single Israeli if it acquired the…

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far . > who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbo…

> Except, thats not really true, is it? Hamas have been openly saying for several years now that they have no beef with people of the Jewish faith, they just want their homes back.

No, that is not what they have been saying. That's what you have been hearing, but they have been saying they want the area to be under Muslim control. They could have had their homes back decades ago if they accepted Israeli rule. No. When they say "Free Palestine" you hear Western ideas of freedom, democracy, sovereignty, dignity. They mean "Free Palestine of Jews". We know this because they say it and act on it, repeatedly.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#629

Post by redeeman »

kaba0 wrote: post #422
redeeman wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> forbid military age men from leaving the country You mean like it happens in most wars?

funny, I dont recall 25 year olds forbidden from leaving the US during the last how many years and countless wars? I also dont see a general notice in israel to not leave the country.

But even if it happens other places, it does not change what it is

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#630

Post by rendall »

GordonS wrote: post #618
rendall wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be correct were the war about retaliation. It is not retaliation. It is a military operation. It is a military operation to remove an implacable enemy who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure. This is an enemy who would kill more than 30,000 Israeli citizens if it could. Hamas would kill every single Israeli if it acquired the…

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far . > who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbo…

> Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable

This is why Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques and hospitals, according to you?

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