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F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

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Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#621

Post by hajile »

LegitShady wrote: post #539
brobdingnagians wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read some analyses of the F35 vs A10 which don't favour the F35 for CAS operations much. The main thing I saw was that F35 requires more maintenance and longer runways than the A10 and is more fragile. It depends on what kind of a war that is being fought, but in a major great power war, you couldn't always guarantee having nice high quality air bases, runways, and support teams near the front. Sometimes it is p…

The A-10 would be shot out of the sky at impressive rates with today's proliferation of MANPADs, the same way the ukrainians are shooting down russion KA-52s in ukraine whenever they get too close to the line of contact. The F-35 could require 100x more maintenance than the A-10 but it will accomplish the mission and come home afterwards. The A-10 is useful for shooting someone who can't shoot missiles back at your p…

Look at actual kills of SU-25 and KA-52 vs the damage they have done. I've seen a single KA-52 mission take down around a half-dozen vehicles and completely halt an advance. That helicopter more than paid for itself in just that one interaction.

There have been no doubt thousands to tens of thousands of missions flown over the past year and a half by Russia, but only around 28 SU-25 losses and 36 KA-52 losses[0]. At 19 months into the war, that's 1-2 per month which would be more than acceptable losses. Even looking at total aircraft losses per side per month, the worst case is Ukraine with 307 losses over 19 months or 16.2 per month.

Perspective is important. We lost 2,714 planes in the Korean War[1] over 37 months. That is 73.4 aircraft per month or a little more than 4.5x as many each month and it was considered acceptable losses.

I don't care to add up all the things, but even in far less heated wars with basically zero anti-air capability, there are still a ton of aircraft losses[2].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during...

[1] https://dpaa-mil.sites.crmforce.mil/dpaaFamWebInKoreanAirBat...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_accidents_and...

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#622

Post by rsaxvc »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #571
_djo_ wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, yes it would be a security risk. Second, AirTags depend on there being a set number of iOS devices nearby to provide location data and an internet connection. You're not going to get that in a rural area.

Alright maybe not an AirTag but a Tile tag would surely work?

That would be a worse option, given they share location data.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#623

Post by epolanski »

justin66 wrote: post #614
MarkMarine wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you’re thinking of is the pilot. If the plane is capable of control, the pilot will move it on a trajectory away from populated areas if possible. Protecting innocent people on the ground in the case of an emergency was always top of mind, you can see this in the crash reporting for multiple real world incidents (in airframes with, and without ejection seats, where the last actions of the aircrew were steer…

> If the plane is capable of control, the pilot will move it on a trajectory away from populated areas if possible. Protecting innocent people on the ground in the case of an emergency was always top of mind, you can see this in the crash reporting for multiple real world incidents One of the things I remember from Chuck Yeager's autobiography (his first one - I think he eventually had several) is that he called bull…

I've seen few episodes of aircrash investigation (mayday), and multiple times pilots try to crash or land where they will do less damage on ground.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#624

Post by Retric »

justin66 wrote: post #614
MarkMarine wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you’re thinking of is the pilot. If the plane is capable of control, the pilot will move it on a trajectory away from populated areas if possible. Protecting innocent people on the ground in the case of an emergency was always top of mind, you can see this in the crash reporting for multiple real world incidents (in airframes with, and without ejection seats, where the last actions of the aircrew were steer…

> If the plane is capable of control, the pilot will move it on a trajectory away from populated areas if possible. Protecting innocent people on the ground in the case of an emergency was always top of mind, you can see this in the crash reporting for multiple real world incidents One of the things I remember from Chuck Yeager's autobiography (his first one - I think he eventually had several) is that he called bull…

There’s many voice recordings, instrument logs, and even ATC conversations of people aiming doomed aircraft away from populated areas. Military pilots may have different priorities as they can eject, but many civilian pilots have spent their final moments trying to minimize casualties.

Exceptions defiantly exist, but it’s a very common reaction.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#625

Post by protomolecule »

kunwon1 wrote: post #131
btbuildem wrote: post #70

An 80's movie dream is playing out for some rural kids, where they stumble upon a smouldering high-tech wreckage and as they explore it, men in suits pour out of black SUVs and talk to them in taciturn ways. Seriously though, these jets sound terribly overpriced for how unreliable they seem to be.

I'm no expert on aircraft procurement or government contracts (I'm an engineer who used to work on fighter jets) - that being said, it's my understanding that the F-35 is actually a very successful project, and a very affordable one at that. I haven't got any citations or evidence to present, I could be wrong about all of this, it's a topic I've got only casual knowledge about. A broad overview of my understanding of…

>Russian and Chinese 5th generation fighters (PAK FA and Su-57)

PAK FA/T-50/Su-57 is the same Russian fighter.[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-57

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#626

Post by jpgvm »

Retric wrote: post #624
justin66 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the plane is capable of control, the pilot will move it on a trajectory away from populated areas if possible. Protecting innocent people on the ground in the case of an emergency was always top of mind, you can see this in the crash reporting for multiple real world incidents One of the things I remember from Chuck Yeager's autobiography (his first one - I think he eventually had several) is that he called bull…

There’s many voice recordings, instrument logs, and even ATC conversations of people aiming doomed aircraft away from populated areas. Military pilots may have different priorities as they can eject, but many civilian pilots have spent their final moments trying to minimize casualties. Exceptions defiantly exist, but it’s a very common reaction.

Yeah these are by far the most harrowing ones to listen to. You can hear the resignation in their voices before they steel themselves to try anything left to avoid loss of life on the ground.

Real rough shit.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#628

Post by lofaszvanitt »

tehf0x wrote: post #265

So a similar thing happened near some friends' in France. A military jet crashed into the forest near their house, but the air force couldn't figure out where it had gone. Eventually a farmer noticed that a new pond had appeared on his land. The jet made enough of a crater when crashing that drained the nearby swamp and created a new pond deep enough to conceal the full fuselage, thus completely hiding the airplane.…

Jesus, imagine the thrill, that you have a full blown airplane in your backyard. Going out during the nights and sleep next to it, sit in the cockpit, whatever.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#629

Post by petesergeant »

btbuildem wrote: post #70

An 80's movie dream is playing out for some rural kids, where they stumble upon a smouldering high-tech wreckage and as they explore it, men in suits pour out of black SUVs and talk to them in taciturn ways. Seriously though, these jets sound terribly overpriced for how unreliable they seem to be.

> these jets sound terribly overpriced for how unreliable they seem to be

I'm in no way suggesting your comment is an example of this, but, if I was a hostile foreign power I'd do everything possible to amplify messaging that my enemy's wonder-jet was an expensive boondoggle to try and hurt political support for it.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#630

Post by dredmorbius »

A debris field has been found:

The debris field is approximately two hours northeast of Joint Base Charleston. JB Charleston, which led the search, “is transferring incident command to the USMC this evening, as they begin the recovery process,” the Marine Corps said in a news release.

Members of the community were cautioned to avoid the area so the recovery team can secure the debris field and begin the recovery process.

https://lite.cnn.com/2023/09/17/us/south-carolina-fighter-je...>

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