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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#621

Post by generalpf »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #583
dralley wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the problem here is not even power of one group, but an individual doing an end run around the group.

>> It seems like the problem here is not even power of one group, but an individual doing an end run around the group. If so where is the transparency and accountability? Who was the individual? Why did they do what they did? If they do not represent project leadership, what will be done to fix this situation and prevent similar problems in the future? If they do represent project leadership, why weren't the changes…

This person claims to be one of the individuals. https://pony.social/@sgrif@hachyderm.io/110447363468527189

Re: Why I Left Rust

#622

Post by b112 »

pdimitar wrote: post #569
b112 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are generalizing No, my statements about zealots in the rust community, are not generalizations. Rust has more zealots, than every other language combined. Note, advocates are not the same as zealots.

I'm skeptical. This incident in particular doesn't prove that Rust has more zealots. Every single Rust dev I've worked with is a normal programmer who prioritizes merit and rational process. If you're already unfriendly towards the Rust community then this incident will only deepen your bias. I urge you to not assess the community with this flawed thought process. Rust devs are like all others.

This incident in particular doesn't prove that Rust has more zealots.

At no point did I claim it did.

If you're already unfriendly towards the Rust community

Where did I state this?

It seems you are touchy on this front. And it seems as if saying that the rust community has some zealots, upsets you.

Most other dev languages don't even have "communities".

Re: Why I Left Rust

#623

Post by atoav »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

I may misunderstand something here, but I'd assume the organizers of a conference are in charge of deciding which talk goes where. Why is there an expectation for this to be different here?

If I was askwd to give a keynote somewhere and upon presentation of my topic the organization decides another talk is better suited I would trust them that they wouldn't do that lightly.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#624

Post by rhaway84773 »

wokwokwok wrote: post #111
indy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

Is it bad of me to say I really just don’t care? If he did the talk. If he did it as a keynote. If someone else is “leaving rust” because of it? It all seems so fabulously irrelevant, I really struggle to understand why: 1) I should care (I don’t, currently) 2) People are coming out of the woodwork to criticise the rust team / foundation whatever when they’re not involved. 3) Why people having emotions (eg. The perso…

You cared enough to comment on it.

Comments about how someone just doesn’t care about something is the worst kind of comment.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#625

Post by dimgl »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #477
greesil wrote: post #460

So this person didn't get to speak at the conference, and they quit? But their technical contributions are still being added? Did I get that right?

They quit because they didn't get a keynote slot. They were still invited to give a talk.

This is such a non-issue to me I'm surprised it's even at the top of Hacker News.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#626

Post by kortex »

Georgelemental wrote: post #483
ericyd wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "a person of color" (as if white is not a color, but whatever) You might want to look into the historical basis for this term before you make snarky comments about it. It comes across as dismissive. My understanding is the term "person of color" evolved from "colored" (which originally just meant black (in America at least)) and now encompasses non-white people.

"Colored" is now considered offensive by most, so why isn't "person of color" also viewed the same way? Both terms describe the same opressive system of nonsense racial hierarchy, after all.

It's complex but the reductionist explanation is that it is in part due to the euphemism treadmill, and in part etymological origin. "Colored" comes from the era of segregation, while "people of color" comes after.

But don't get too comfortable, as "people of color" will probably phase out soon as well. My money is first on "BIPOC" (as an initialism, usually sounding out the letters), giving way to "bipoc" (as an acronym, lower case, pronounced /baı-pok/). But I'm too white to make that call, just a guess based on linguistics patterns.

Even "BIPOC" is not without controversy. But afaik, no one has proffered an adequate word to describe "folks that have too much melanin to be considered white".

https://slate.com/human-interest/2016/08/colored-person-vers...

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/918418825/is-it-time-to-say-r...

Re: Why I Left Rust

#627

Post by Hackbraten »

bjornsing wrote: post #120
indy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

> "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart broke. I wept because of the cruelty. But I also wept because I helped create the system that could do this to someone." I’m a bit hesitant to say this out loud, but… you can only cry over this “betrayal”, “mistreatment” and “cruelty” if you have lived a very protected life.

> you can only cry over this “betrayal”, “mistreatment” and “cruelty” if you have lived a very protected life.

For some people, crying is just a way to deal with emotions. So please don’t judge.

I’ve been a professional software developer for more than 20 years. I still find myself weeping at work once in a while, especially when overwhelmed with hardship and negative feelings. I don’t see how this would be a sign of living “a very protected life.”

Re: Why I Left Rust

#629

Post by User23 »

lyu07282 wrote: post #149
indy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

I thought "rust culture" came out of this sort of super SJW/woke culture of mozilla? Nothing against that sort of mindset in theory, but it sometimes leads to a certain irrational hypersensitive intolerant mob behavior and authoritarian/anti democratic tendencies. There was also the recent easily preventable drama [1] around the trademark guidelines some people left rust over. I don't really find any of this drama co…

Once you understand that "woke" is basically a kind of white internecine competition then it stops being surprising that the "woke" movement doesn't really care about non-white persons except as pieces in that game. These events are of course entirely consistent with that interpretation, and so far I've never seen it falsified.
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