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Bard and new AI features in Search

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Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#621

Post by sampo »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #304

Question for AI experts out there: ChatGPT is awesome, but it is obviously hamstrung by the fact that it crawled the web at the end of 2021, so all of its data is essentially "frozen" and it doesn't "know" of any topics that occurred after 2021. Seems to me like the next "holy grail" in large language models is building a model that can be continually updated. If Google can achieve that, I think they could leapfrog O…

> I get the sense that LLMs are trained on a very large data set all at once, but that it is difficult to incrementally update them with new data.

In 2020, OpenAI wrote that training the 175B parameter GPT-3 took 3e23 fl-operations [1]. A $1600 NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 [2] can do 80 tflops (80 × 1e12 operations per second). So 1 GPU would need 120 years to train the model.

With $2.4 million, you could buy 1500 GPUs, and train GPT-3 from scratch in 1 month.

Partial continuous re-training should be way cheaper, if there is a way. But even training again from scratch every month seems feasible for a big company.

Disclaimer: Not an AI expert.

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.14165, table D.1.

[2] https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4090.c3889

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#622

Post by makeitdouble »

rchaud wrote: post #446
ekanes wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Enthusiasm about Larry Page's ultimate goals and dreams went out the window right about the time don't be evil went out the window.

At this point in SV history, harkening back to what a founder said as an anonymous PhD in his pre-billionaire 20s, sounds a lot like when people talk about "what the Founding Fathers wanted". Nothing is set in stone, and the world is very different from the Web 1.0 era in which Google formed.

Your comment and parent’s look aligned to me. He’s saying it went down the drain, and you posit things do change and we shouldn’t expect current Google to be aiming at benevolence and ethicality.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#623

Post by bilbo0s »

mochomocha wrote: post #536
dubcanada wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely ignore the fact that companies will show ads everywhere, there is no reason that they would not try to inject ads into chat. "Here is the answer to your question about oranges. But did you know Tropicana is made from 100% real orange juice?" "A project manager is a ... Often the software project managers use is Zoho Projects for the best agile sprint planning" If they can put ads in it, there will be a…

"Native advertising 2.0"

And the best part?

All the money goes to Google!

No more sharing with websites where Google Ads appear. They can even autogenerate youtube channels explaining popular or trending topics. Which of course, they will know, because they'll own search and AI generation. So there will also be no more paying a large portion of youtubers.

People who explain topical subject matter on youtube could, if Google chose, be eliminated. And even if Google doesn't, some content mill in Manilla definitely will.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#624

Post by dougmwne »

enneff wrote: post #275
dougmwne wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you done adversarial testing? How easy is it to jailbreak Bard vs. ChatGPT? Can Bard produce code?

Obviously I am unable to discuss the details, as much as I might like to. Sorry.

That’s just it though. GPT-3 has been publicly accessible for years. ChatGPT has been public and hitting scale for months. OpenAI has collected mountains of AI chat training data and has been iterating in public. Google has nothing available to the public and you are under NDA. And you think we should be optimistic about Google’s progress? Will this new search feature last longer than Stadia?

Either way, chat interfaces in both search engines should be available to some of the public within the next few weeks. Theory is about to smack into reality at scale.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#625

Post by pphysch »

rippercushions wrote: post #517
pphysch wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Google phone can instantly translate almost any foreign language, embedded in an image, without an internet connection. Pretty sure that was not a thing 8 years ago. If/when Google embeds an (local and/or lightweight) Bard model into every Pixel phone, that will be a game-changer.

That's WordLens, which Google acquired in 2014, 9 years ago. https://techcrunch.com/2014/05/16/google-has-acquired-quest-...

Do you have a source that WordLens worked without an internet connection?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#626

Post by amelius »

silisili wrote: post #494
jacooper wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already LLM search engines out there https://perplexity.ai

Oh I quite like this. I asked it, conversationally as I would to a human, "when is the super bowl", "what channel is it on", and "who is playing" in that order, and it answered all three perfectly. For fun, I asked it a more complex question - "will ford stock go up or down", and it answered with - Analysts have a median target of $13.00 for Ford stock in the next 12 months[1], with a high estimate of $21.00 and a lo…

> how many legs do three horses and a duck have?

> Perplexity: The three horses and duck have a total of 24 legs[1] [2]. However, the question only asks for the number of legs on the floor, which is 4[3][4]

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#627

Post by ehzy »

aembleton wrote: post #593
Denzel wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these conversations have one glaring omission. As it stands right now, ChatGPT is a net negative on the ecosystem it exists in. What does that mean? ChatGPT extracts value from the ecosystem by hoovering up primary sources to provide answers, but what value does ChatGPT give back to these primary sources? What incentivizes content creators to continue producing for ChatGPT? Right now, nothing. ChatGPT (or its des…

> but what value does ChatGPT give back to these primary sources? The dissemination of their thoughts and ideas.

With no attribution or way to discover the source. That's great for propagandists but maybe less great for everyone else.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#628

Post by paganel »

moufestaphio wrote: post #524
paganel wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS cannot deliver successful stuff on the web at scale. They can deliver unsuccessful stuff on the web at scale, they can deliver successful stuff that turns out to be inconsequential for their bottom line on the web in the long-term (AJAX came from MS), but it's just not in their DNA to take over the web. They had lots of chances to do it during the last 20 years or so, they had all the silver bullets at their dispo…

Uh sorry what? Azure is the second largest cloud provider, well ahead of google.. That's like the definition of 'web scale' Not sure what decade you're stuck in here with comments about ajax

> Azure is the second largest cloud provider, well ahead of google.

I explicitly mentioned the "web", as in, what we're doing right now on this website. Leaving aside the fact that Azure is mostly used big corporate/government entities, there's no web-startup that will potentially dominate the web and that would go into Azure just as.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#629

Post by paganel »

ctvo wrote: post #582
paganel wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS cannot deliver successful stuff on the web at scale. They can deliver unsuccessful stuff on the web at scale, they can deliver successful stuff that turns out to be inconsequential for their bottom line on the web in the long-term (AJAX came from MS), but it's just not in their DNA to take over the web. They had lots of chances to do it during the last 20 years or so, they had all the silver bullets at their dispo…

> MS cannot deliver successful stuff on the web at scale. It's this type of confidence that you come back to HN over and over for. Let's ignore Azure, Office 365, and Microsoft's other online properties. In just video games: Microsoft owns and operates the Xbox network with over 100 million active monthly users[1]. That runs on the internet with all the features of a social network and more. I think they can deliver…

> Azure, Office 365

I explicitly mentioned the web, Office365 is not a successful web story. It is a successful enterprise story (afaik it is still wildly profitable for MS the company), but it is not a successful web story. Ditto for Xbox.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#630

Post by makeitdouble »

alexb_ wrote: post #9

>AI can be helpful in these moments, synthesizing insights for questions where there’s no one right answer. Soon, you’ll see AI-powered features in Search that distill complex information and multiple perspectives into easy-to-digest formats, so you can quickly understand the big picture and learn more from the web: whether that’s seeking out additional perspectives, like blogs from people who play both piano and gui…

The side effect of too much no-click results could be mainstream sites completely disengaging from Google Search altogether. Just as sites already set no-index zones, those could expand to protect from training.

That kind of move could be the actual “Google Search killer”

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