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AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

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Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#621

Post by Slighted »

a_shovel wrote: post #608
Slighted wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans people and trans-friendly people subscribe to his research though, which is the issue. John Money was responsible himself and only himself for what he did. Its obvious that his experimentation was cruel and a complete failure, so with that in mind why use his completely bogus, stupid term "gender" to describe (validate) themselves and human sexuality? >I've seen some accusations like this. Every time, the drag…

A lot of the terminology Money coined is still in use because it is perfectly serviceable and it describes the experience of many trans people decently well. Ultimately, the validity of an idea is not dependent on whether the person who first proposed it was a horrible bastard or not. > "It's not gonna lick itself" and men in fishnets running around Everyone in that video is more covered up than any woman at the beac…

The terminology is not perfectly serviceable. Note how in my previous post I referenced his experiment, calling it a complete failure. The term "gender" came into existence because Money believed that a biological male could be "socially female" through surgical intervention and social influence. That obviously didn't work because the child refused to believe he was female and eventually committed suicide, as did his brother who was forced into sexual intercourse with him. This is what "gender" is based off of. Male and female roles have been dynamic throughout human history but both sexes maintained distinct sex-related behaviors from one another despite this fact.

>Everyone in that video is more covered up than any woman at the beach, and if innuendo that kids won't understand is unacceptable to you, then basicly every animated kids' movie from the past twenty years would disagree.

The human body isn't inherently sexual, as evidenced by ancient humans and various current societies, so its not a matter of coverage but rather a matter of context and purpose (of the particular types of clothing used in that video). You are either extraordinarily ignorant, malicious, or both if you don't think that men dressed up as sexual versions of women along with sexual innuendo "It's not gonna lick itself" on the wall in a bar/nightclub is a bad place for children to be.

>Please go read these statistics...

>Here's another study for you to read...

There are so many problems with simply linking individual (confirmation-bias-fueled cherry-picked) studies that I'm not even going to bother touching this.

The big "seeing the forest rather than the trees" idea that needs to be known is that mental illness is rampant in trans people and communities (aside from the transgenderism itself) and suicide rates are extremely high. "Neo-vaginas" do not have the same faculties as a normal vagina to maintain their cleanliness and will attempt to heal themselves over time unless dilated (As they are nothing more than glorified puncture wounds). Those that manage to de-transition rather than committing suicide are overwhelmingly regretful and suffer from numerous health-related issues.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#623

Post by twodave »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #219
twodave wrote: post #106

Uncharacteristically off-topic comment from me, I guess, but when do humans get to a point where we no longer have to appeal to the lowest common denominator? How are our relationships supposed to improve if we dub anything that makes us uncomfortable as "taboo" and steer clear of it? I get that on the Internet there is a lot of anonymity (though less than there used to be) that folks tend to abuse, but at the same t…

It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide. The public dialogue around trans lives is one of very little empathy, respect, or civility. People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people w…

I think this is the exact kind of thing we should be talking about. There are some truths that I think we can brush aside if we let ourselves, such as:

1. All people experience trauma. Whether you think one person's trauma is more important, acceptable or comfortable to discuss doesn't change any of that.

2. Some trauma is objectively more severe than others, but not necessarily subjectively more or less. A light-hearted example--we have 4 kids. It's not fair for us to make fun of our friends/extended family who have 1 kid and complain about certain things. It's also not okay for a drug addict to make fun of a porn addict, or for a fat person to call their bulimic friend "shallow".

3. As evidenced above, people cope with trauma in different ways. What causes one person to question their sexuality might drive another person to overeat or another person to self-harm or escape into fantasy literature or video games or whatever other means of avoidance is calling out to them. Nobody deserves to be shamed for this (in fact in a lot of cases that's part of what keeps them in the cycle).

We should be able to talk about this openly, though, and even make light of it at times, having enough social grace to know that people with different (or even wrong) opinions or who are telling a joke aren't attacking anyone or spreading hate or whatever. I think at least one real issue here is a lack of trust. If I don't believe the person on the other end of the keyboard has my best interest at heart then I'll probably take whatever opportunity I can to be offended by what they say.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#624

Post by genewitch »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #200

Twitch would also ban the library of babel: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Library_of_Babel

i wonder if twitch would ban an AI reading the digits of pi.

you know with the correct key it decodes into the most offensive thing(s) ever. Or if you let it run long enough it might not even require a key!

we need to ban irrational numbers!

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#625

Post by slackfan »

anoonmoose wrote: post #617
slackfan wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question - is any viewpoint you don't agree with mean that whoever wrote it must be pissed off? Frankly, I don't give a crap about Chapelle, he has more money than I ever will for better or for worse, he exists and has his fans and detractors, that's absolutely fine by me. He was a useful example though that seems to rustle peoples' jimmies though.

What do you think he was "a useful example" of? Context would imply you think he's an example of a comedian who was cancelled for being offensive...but most of the replies (mine included) seem to be saying "but he wasn't actually cancelled", which really calls into question whether or not that makes him "a useful example"...

He was cancelled for about two weeks before his money got him through it. Seems like a relevant example to me. Also to this day people call a black man white supremacist so...

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#626

Post by erulabs »

ben_w wrote: post #562
erulabs wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the entire audience didn't say "boo, your jokes are bad!", otherwise no one would have been viewing the Seinfeld stream in the first place. Instead, a tiny fraction of the viewers decided to shout that they were being harmed by the content that no one made them watch, and implied that Twitch is morally culpable for the opinions of (non-human!) creators on their platform. Twitch, out of fear of legal or viral repe…

> entire I didn't use that word. > out of fear of legal or viral repercussions, Is why places have always refused to host people even way back when. It's an even stronger reason for the host location to say "no" than for an event organiser.

This conversation is a problem of definition. Cancel culture is not the entire or even half the audience of a club complaining about the act. Cancel culture is 500 people out of 50M (0.0001%) complaining, which combined with the power of journalistic headlines to blow things wildly out of proportion, results in the act being removed - even though, in many cases, 100% of the in person audience enjoyed the act. In fact, in many cases, the shows are sold out and there are no free seats, so we can assume much more than 100% of the audience enjoyed the act.

Cancel culture when a tiny minority can use outrage to cudgel others into complying. You can pretend when people say "cancel culture" they mean "popular opinion", but that's not what they mean, even a little bit.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#627

Post by clnq »

DoctorOW wrote: post #534
clnq wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t really see a mob on this one Well, it either had to be mass-reported or spread online as a hate incident. I think Twitch mostly over-reacts to those.

Is there evidence of this? It seems like nobody was even really talking about this before the ban and I find it hard to believe a huge movement rose up and then vanished without a trace.

I did not say it was a huge movement. But it was big enough to get the account suspended by reporting it.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#628

Post by nomel »

freejazz wrote: post #480
nomel wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please make discussion possible by giving specifics rather than using unnecessary secretive terms like “certain people” and “they”. Forcing people to guess should be avoided, especially since not everyone is where you’re from. Links to examples are also helpful.

Utah just banned transitioning youth. Google is your friend, no need to guess.

The fact that two people responded with two different answers shows that guessing is required. Indirectness is popular with these types of topics, and I don't understand why. It's almost like it's used to preemptively set up a fight, with responses similar to yours, like "Well, you're not paying attention" or "How could you not know?". It's not useful, to anyone.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#629

Post by flangola7 »

xcxs wrote: post #533
flangola7 wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

For starters, the three people that jumped me in April 2022 and called me a mentally ill pedophile and put me in a hospital bed for several days. (I am a visibly GNC person who does not appear clearly male or female).

I was fortunate to have been well practiced in drawing and discharging my mace canister or it could have been significantly worse. A lot of physical trauma can be (and was) inflicted in 5 seconds.

This is not a particularly exceptional experience among my other non-cis friends. Not all of have suffered violence, but being threatened with it is nearly universal.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#630

Post by snet0 »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #381
snet0 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with this in the abstract, this particular case is that of a private company refusing hosting to content that it (or, perhaps, its advertisers) does not want their name attached to. It'd be nice if we didn't have this situation, e.g. income not being tied directly to advertisers -> indirectly to LCD of opinion. I don't know if you were implying that Twitch ought not remove this content, but I just feel…

>this particular case is that of a private company refusing hosting to content I believe this argument holds water on some level, when it regards a small private company, but it is much less compelling when that "private company" is Amazon (who owns Twitch), Google, Twitter, Facebook or another behemoth with hundreds of millions of users. At that point, it becomes a very chilling attack on free speech, which is why I…

Yeah I'm definitely sympathetic to this, and I think the next decade will determine how we proceed with these cases. It does feel like, while they're all private companies, if a random individual was to be banned from all social media platforms, their life really cannot function at some level in a lot of modern societies, so we ought to treat these companies differently.

When the companies are generating revenue through selling advertisements, and the advertisers decide "yeah we actually don't want to buy a pre-roll on the stream where the guy is making racist comments", it's another level of difficulty to navigate. Should these companies be required to host someone's content at a loss, given that they have some way for advertisers to "block" certain content types from being associated with their brands?

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