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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#621

Post by makeitdouble »

hedora wrote: post #267
ntr-- wrote: post #83

> Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed Here in AU we call that "wages". Having to do quick maths while under social pressure and the threat of having your service quality degraded to make up for an employer or state being unwilling to pay workers enough to live might be called "coercion", but certainly it is externalising costs onto the cus…

The US faced a dilemma: Post civil war, many people didn't want to pay freed slaves for their labor. A combination of tipping and converting jobs that were typically held by blacks to unpaid positions provided a solution. It became popular despite attempts to ban the practice. Today, tipped workers in the US are paid, but have a lower minimum wage than normal workers. Source: https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-…

A sociologist was joking on twitter that “every time I dig a rule that has been on the book for a long time but doesn’t seem to make any sense, it ends up to come from slavery” (paraphrasing)

I didn’t expect tipping to follow the same rule.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#622

Post by somberi »

jacktribe wrote: post #481
kqr2 wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guessing it's this: https://awakening.bar/

Yep. Didn't want to share it because it's embarrassing how taped together that page is, but I had to put something up in an afternoon, because in the absence of a website people were taking photos of the menu on the iPads to take home.

@jacktribe - All the best.

I looked at the website, and I understand it is WIP. Is this a mistake that needs fixing? "Americano - Espresso with hot water. $4.50 (Medium) $4.50 (Large) "

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#623

Post by watwut »

tptacek wrote: post #13
adam_arthur wrote: post #6

Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts, I'd say yes. Plus many restaurants with placeholder tip icons that start at 25%+ You also don't know what the tip is really going towards in many cases. In the classic restaurant/waitstaff case you can reasonably expect it to go to the workers, in the random knick knack or general goods stores ??? Tipping in general is a system to transfer w…

No, tipping is in general a system that shifts some of the employer's costs to customers explicitly, rather than hiding them in prices and wages. It's an idiosyncratic system, but not an irrational one: wages and prices are stickier than tip levels.

It makes is so that actual price of the product is different then the one on the sticker. It is manipulative pricing.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#624

Post by harvey9 »

kelnos wrote: post #596
jryhdtjtdhy wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because then those engineers will no longer be out of a job, but some other people with a smaller skillset will be! And all will be good, because we finally had a push towards real automation!

I'm sympathetic to this argument because people can't retrain for a different job instantly, and there's mostly no safety net that allows people to take the time to retrain and still be able to provide for themselves and family while they do it. But in the grand scheme of things, low-skill jobs should be automated to the greatest degree possible, freeing up people to work on more worthwhile things. And as automation…

The OP is running a distinctive coffee shop. Interacting with human staff is a feature. If I literally just want to drink a coffee then coffee vending machines already exist.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#625

Post by killerpopiller »

teekert wrote: post #610

I can tell from experience if you come from a non-tipping country you can really have some negative experiences before you realize what's going on :) That said, the "need" for a tip does make the waiter/ress a lot more pro-active and helpful than in my country where waiter/ress's can be cranky even. In the US they introduce themselves ("Hi I'm Jerome, I'm excited to be your waiter today!" Made me smile every time), m…

I always have to cringe about such exaggerate expressions, "excited to be your waiter" and the like. What is the intensification? It just feels like an unnecessary lie or even hypocrisy.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#626

Post by jacktribe »

mnky9800n wrote: post #597
jacktribe wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While profit sharing may work as an incentive for shift managers or store managers, in the absence of tips most baristas will expect some other immediate bonus pay, preferably based on a measurable metric that doesn't depend on factors beyond the barista's control, such as cost of goods sold, supply chain constraints, rent hikes, recessions, etc. If you occasionally ask the customer in-app "how was your service today…

I don't feel like you responded to my comment. If you are paying a reasonable wage, profit sharing is a bonus. You are creating tipping with extra steps.

Profit sharing only works if you stick around long enough.

In the service industry, and especially amongst young people, it's common to pick up a job like this for a few months and make some money, then move on to something else. And that's okay, not everyone wants to make a career out of making coffee. It's still a good formative experience to have, while earning some money, and there's no reason why you shouldn't do it right and get rewarded for it.

But profit sharing won't work for someone that is around for a summer. For instance that person could benefit from any upswing caused by previous employees, but if they don't add a positive contribution to the customer experience themselves, they won't be around for the long-term impact. And if you don't give them an incentive at all for the first few months, then you're back to square one. Or even worse: they could negatively impact the profit sharing of employees that have been around for the long run.

Ultimately, money is a motivator and pretending like it's not does not make tipping go away. The problem with tipping as I see it, is that it masquerades the real cost of doing business.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#627

Post by tomcam »

dang wrote: post #216
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

Seconded. Opening a coffee shop anywhere is an act of bravery, but in L.A., well… Godspeed, my friend.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#628

Post by euroderf »

yafbum wrote: post #449

There has been a deplorable profusion of dark patterns in restaurant checkout UIs, such as offering preselected tip amounts set along a 18-20-25% scale (standard used to be 15%), making it quite difficult to leave a custom tip, etc. Add to this various "surcharges" and other mandatory fees added for this or that (my favorite: mandatory "resort fees" for hotels - seriously why is that not just rolled into the price of…

That's one nice thing about living in the EU, that it mandates full price disclosure for some industries. (Anyone got a list?)

In particular, when it says your airline ticket is NNN€, you will pay than NNN€. No screwball fees up the wazoo.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#629

Post by tshaddox »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524
dang wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

I’d check out a detailed write up of any of those other coffee shops in the world too. The detailed write up is the thing that’s rare and interesting.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#630

Post by dr_dshiv »

q845712 wrote: post #139
godelski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping at best is a form of bribery and at worst a feudal practice of wealth transfer. I tip because it is the social norm (and bribery: don't want my food messed with), but I think we can also acknowledge that this practice is weird and has a shaky history.

I think tipping at its very best is an opportunity to give a stranger a small gift. I recognize your points -- sometimes it feels like an obligated payment and probably in nearly all cases the capital owning class could and/or should contribute more, but i think you're excluding some optional perspectives. Sometimes I just want to help someone have a nice day by giving them something they didn't expect, like a genero…

Having been living in the Netherlands, it now feels so patronizing to tip. Like,

“I am rich person. I will give you some money, service person. Now smile and appreciate my lordship.”—how it feels to tip.

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