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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#621

Post by tormeh »

darth_avocado wrote: post #589
Teandw wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money laundering, like drugs, starts in larger amounts and is broken down further down the chain it goes. Those $5 and $10 bills getting laundered started from a $50K transaction getting laundered.

Right but you don’t make a large “payment”. You break down the large sun into a smaller one outside the system. When it enters the legal system, the amount is smaller. Unless of course, you use banks.

Not always. A popular step is to buy an expensive car in Germany using cash, then bring it to another country. Germany is central to many money laundering schemes because of the prevalence of cash payments there.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#622

Post by tormeh »

wbl wrote: post #554
Teandw wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't trust a smartphone app provided by their banking provider but they trust a random bloke they've never met with 10k in their back pocket. Right. Makes sense.

You don't need to trust the person when they have cash

How do you know the cash isn't fake?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#623

Post by torstenvl »

franey wrote: post #613
xyzzyz wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the people with power to declare stuff illegal can always say that whatever you’re doing is illegal before freezing your bank account. Was your comment meant to reassure me?

It wasn't, no. It was meant to clarify for other readers that people didn't have their bank accounts frozen for protesting COVID; they had their bank accounts frozen for financially supporting or participating in an illegal occupation of a city centre. Your point stands that governments/courts decide what is illegal and that they have the power to freeze bank accounts when those accounts are used to fund illegal acti…

And if someone illegally occupies the front seat of a bus, or a diner counter? Is it also okay to keep them from something that belongs to them then?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#624

Post by xyzzyz »

franey wrote: post #619
naniwaduni wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign. There's certainly ... nuance you're taking for granted in declaring a mix of political protest and political protest illegal.

We're getting pretty off topic, but it wasn't what they were protesting that was illegal, it was how they did it. For a US comparison, First Amendment rights don't include a right to occupy city streets for weeks, even if you're doing it to protest the government.

> For a US comparison, First Amendment rights don't include a right to occupy city streets for weeks, even if you're doing it to protest the government.

That’s interesting to hear, because a group of political activist have occupied a couple of city blocks in my city for a couple of weeks, declared independence, intimidated and harassed residents and businesses, and murdered a bunch of people there, but nobody has ever been arrested or prosecuted for any of that (including murders). Maybe the Canadians have heard the story of CHAZ and thought they their government will also be as lenient. Turns out that they were very wrong.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#625

Post by niij »

kawsper wrote: post #510
wslh wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark they usually charge you extra if you use a credit card.

That's against the law: > Businesses in Denmark and the EU may not charge a fee for your payment with Dankort, Visa/Dankort, Visakort, MasterCard and other ordinary payment cards issued in the EU. > Company cards are exempt from the ban. Shops may charge a fee if you use a payment card issued to a company or public organisation. https://taenk.dk/privatoekonomi/gode-raad/gebyrer-paa-betali...

This is not to be celebrated. It's regulatory, capture plain and simple. Cash purchasers are subsidizing those with credit cards (and the pithy rewards they pay).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#626

Post by kube-system »

ithkuil wrote: post #529
macNchz wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a somewhat rare car with cash several years ago. The seller had a buyer lined up across the country (and showed me evidence), but said that if I could bring him cash he’d sell it to me instead. I went to the bank, brought him an envelope of $100 bills, and it was mine.

> I went to the bank [..] Would a certified check so the same trick?

No, that's actually a popular scam at the moment. People think certified/cashiers checks or money orders are trustworthy. They can be faked.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#627

Post by pgodzin »

Teandw wrote: post #514
b112 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant No. Just no. Rights are not a for-profit balance sheet, such as when Google support provides crappy service, or ghosts you, in the name of profit. Rights are rights. Entrenched, untouchable, everlasting. And each loss affects us all, for the next right taken, is from you. Telling people they must use private enterprise, a third party and pa…

The problem with your thinking there is that you're making an assumption that removing rights is automatically a bad thing or a loss that affects us all, which is quite simply not true. Removing rights can be a good thing. Shall we bring back the right to have slaves? Shall we bring back the right to murder those we don't like? Removing those rights from people has only made the world a better place. As you say, righ…

Well you're also removing rights from the people who would be slaves or killed in your examples.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#628

Post by voidfunc »

csomar wrote: post #595
Teandw wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

Why is this even a question? Are we really discussing whether people are allowed to trade tokens with physical items? Did the bar really go that low.

Why shouldn't it be a question? Why do we allow it in the first place?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#629

Post by csomar »

throwaway41597 wrote: post #303
sealeck wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to analyse at the population here; capital controls are useful for preventing people who have accumulated sizeable asset holdings in country X from moving them to a jurisdiction Y where there are effectively no taxes. Of course this reduces the freedom of the people who control these assets, but there is a common fallacy (usually introduced by the very same people) where they claim that liberty (in the abstr…

The same argument of diminishing returns, that quality of life doesn't improve much when going from 130k€ to 1M€ can be applied to capital controls. Is this 10k€ limit really what is needed to save the welfare state? Were the previous controls not enough? Or is it that the welfare state is collapsing on its own and grasping at straws?

> Or is it that the welfare state is collapsing on its own and grasping at straws?

I think you just reached the conclusion? These things never worked (look at history), but usually are implemented by the incompetent (which got us here in the first place).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#630

Post by rootusrootus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #549
rootusrootus wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd also need the routing number for the bank as well as the name on the account, at a minimum. And what you're thinking of is ACH, which goes between institutions, not between individuals.

The routing and account numbers are on all paper checks you write. You can use them to set up ACH transfers to/from that account, with pretty minimal checks.

Those transfers have to go through heavily regulated institutions, however, all of whom have strict KYC laws. Of all the ways to try and steal someone's money, this would be fairly low on my list.
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