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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

cspicenter.com

621–630 of 972 posts

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

minneapolis got hit pretty hard.

> In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-...

Third in "desirability for property developers", as if that were some kind of important metric for a city.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been in an interview with 3+ strangers. Is that common?

It's extremely common beyond the new grad / junior level, from my experience.

I don't understand what's the value in having 3 people in the room looking at you solve a coding problem, at any level of seniority. Sounds like it's just wasting the time of 3 engineers when 1 could perform the task.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#623

I shut my mouth at work and go along with this stuff because I have no choice. I have a family to take care of. I've accepted this. But man, why do they always throw in the line about striving to make the workplace a "diverse and inclusive culture where everyone can bring their full and authentic self"? Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that - it makes me so angry. I haven't been a…

Can you expand on what you mean by "I haven't been anything like myself in the workplace for over a decade now and I'm sure I'll never be again"?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#624

"I was pretty sure my corporate vice president would be more likely to promote people who had hired more of them and thus made his contribution to the annual D&I report look good." Statements like this carry a lot of weight in this essay: He's "pretty sure" and "assumes" an awful lot. He also seems fairly ineffective at navigating bureaucracy. Taken to extremes, lots of corporate policies can seem a bit overbearing.…

Very recently I was only allowed to hire a black person. The assumptions here are probably correct. Search linkedin for “diversity recruiter”. It’s a role. Companies post specific reqs that state you must belong to a marginalized group in job posts often enough that it’s a bit stomach churning. I’ve personally had to deal with HR for having too many white men on my teams. For software developers in America.

Our recent town hall included not only a "Diversity Up" slide, but also a "Whiteness Down" slide to which the Black host said "whiteness is down 9% but we can do better". I legit turned off my PC for the day. Still haven't fully recovered from that one.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> This results in some people (mainly white men) feeling like they are being left out when they really weren’t the best fit but in the past may have picked over someone else. There would be merit to this line of thinking, if the diversity initiatives came in the form of anonymizing resumes and interviews (which is easier to do with remote interviews). But that's not the case. More often than not, diversity initiative…

What's especially troubling is that blind interviews and auditions, and other similar anonymizing techniques, are now being explicitly attacked from the DE&I perspective on the basis that they don't produce results that are "diverse enough".

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#626
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ya you are, but you know white people and Asians are less likely to be poor compared to Hispanics and African Americans so reality is fighting against your argument. Yet there are more white people in poverty than black people in the US. If we are trying to give opportunity to impoverished people we would judge by poverty. If we want to live in a racist society then we would judge by race.

> Yet there are more white people in poverty than black people in the US Where are you people getting these stats? This is being repeated elsewhere and is not based in reality at all.

https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/p60/277...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if you are looking at the population of rust dev with a background in system coding, or telecom engineer with ciso certification, the stats don't look like the ones of the general population at all. In my university, in the whole class, we had 0 non white, and a single woman. Now, you may argue that we should fix that. But that's another debate, the thing is, people are hiring from the pool we have right now…

It's not another debate because that debate never happens. People will use the same arguments to justify university selection, etc etc.

The argument is "the output that we're seeing is expected given the input". So you walk the chain back until inputs and outputs diverge, at which point the argument can no longer justify it.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#628
post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These rules and categories are ill-defined and even don't exist in some cases. You are not wrong stating ruling class has promoted racial ideas to weaken and control the populace at large. That doesn't mean they exist. The real power structure is held by particular networks and families, not races, as there is no such thing as race. The idea that you can draw lines around a group based on physical characteristic is w…

They do exist... the fact that they are not biological does not mean they do not exist. They have a social-historical reality. They exist in the minds of people making decisions, overtly or not. Trying to become conscious of that and counter it, and (of course imperfectly) correct for some past wrongs due to it, is what this is about.

Are you going to address anything I said or just carte blanche reject it without rationale?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#629
post #428
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dare they go to another country that is heavily one demographic and hence the tech teams are. All those countries' teams are "horrible"? God forbid a family be of shared blood.

There are no countries that are "heavily one demographic"

What?? It is common for certain areas to be mostly populated by a certain demographic. Iceland: 93% ethnic Icelandic. Bolivia 88% Mestizo/Indigenous. Thailand 93% Buddhist. India 80% Hindu. Japan 98% ethnic Japanese. Nigeria 100% fast. Dive in to specific geographic areas within a country and it is often fully homogenous.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of it boils down to risk. For sexual/reproductive reasons, men are more prone to risk - both behaviourally and generically. Evolution doesn't tend to favour risk-taking in the sex that carries and rears offspring. The number of women (not men) in a group is also the bottleneck to the group's ability to reproduce/recover population. Males are more fundamentally disposable, and have developed traits to fit into th…

This is correct. A couple hairs to split: I wouldn't say more "prone to risk", I'd say they have different risk preferences. It's not like one or the other attitude towards risk is better or worse, they're just more or less adaptive given a certain environment. I also wouldn't say men are disposable, as the story you tell at the group level is weak selection compared to at the individual level, but the gist is correc…

> but women are limited to ~13 max

Make that ~70: https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/most-prol...

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