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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#621

Post by Zvez »

sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

(disclaimer, I'm russian but not Russia citizen, but I 'experienced the culture' for 30 years) This is wrong. There is not so much special russian 'mentality' left in Russia, not in the big cities. People there have more-or-less the same 'european values'. The problem now is that we used to think of ourselves as 'good guys'. We destroyed nazis and even though we did a lot of not so good stuff, in minds of russians it always viewed as 'missteps' or 'lesser evil'. Thats why propaganda now is so efficient. General population of Russia can't even imagine the possibility that we invade other country. Because it is impossible, we remember way too well how we were invaded by Germany. And it is easy to use. Basically government tells people that we actually prevent Ukraine to invade DNR/LNR. Yes, it sounds stupid, but it works. Personally I can't even convince my parents that right now we are the bad guys. It is beyond their world view. My point here is that russians are not some special people or special culture that allow us to invade other countries. We just struggle to move to more 'people-based' governments.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#623

Post by oAlbe »

Moru wrote: post #575
rob74 wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except China is not subject to the "brain drain" you are describing and is actually economically successful. When it comes to which regime is more repressive, I agree the difference is only in effectivity - the scale of China's oppression/brainwashing/ethnic cleansing operation in Xinjiang is really scary, I don't think Russia would be capable of organising (or financing) something like this...

Yes, sorry. I meant similarities in the regimes, not braindrain. And if there is something left to take over depends on the choices of weapons russia makes in the next few days.

Is there even going to be something left at all, or someone left, anywhere, depending on the choices of weapons they make in the next few days?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#624

Post by adriancr »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #603
adriancr wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like this barrage of sanctions and anti-Russian sentiment will do nothing but push Russia further toward China. It seems like it's doing massive damage to the Russian Economy. They can go towards China but that won't help much, plus China has ambitions of its own so it may end up de facto a vassal of China if it's not careful... > No one seems to care about arriving at a solution that will minimize bloodshed.…

If the sanctions didn’t work before, I don’t know why they would work now. I don’t have the answers, but certainly any move toward more militarization of the world is usually a bad thing.

> If the sanctions didn’t work before, I don’t know why they would work now.

Just look at short term effects: Ruble is down 30%, Russian banks in EU are going bankrupt, interest rate jumped to 20% so anyone with a loan in Russia is screwed... There's talk of seizing people's savings... Nobody can buy foreign currency... Perhaps they'll go back to trading with Kent cigar packs like in former USSR.

Longer term, it's assumptions, it's doubtful sanctions will go away any time soon, I'd look at Iran and Cuba for possible effects.

It also decouples EU and everyone else from Russia and it grants some immunity to Russian influence. (harder to do election meddling if you're cut off and everyone is against you)

> I don’t have the answers, but certainly any move toward more militarization of the world is usually a bad thing.

Proper defense does tend to prevent invasions. It's a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of folk that Russia will invade at any opportune time and it's best to be prepared.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#625

Post by Ajef »

dimator wrote: post #338
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

I watched TNG in high school. I never realized how much of my worldview it helped form, until I reflected on it later on. Because of that, humanity has really disappointed me. I thought we were on track, but it's just so stark of a reality check. Despite all our progress, our greed and petty squabbling make me feel like the future that star trek pointed us towards is slipping further into the future. I'm sure now tha…

> I thought we were on track, but it's just so stark of a reality check.

While I understand the world view and it's utopian appeal. I believe what your youth might have been missing is an incentive to critically think and search for information that is not curated for you.

In the last decades there has been not much (imo) implying we are anywhere even heading towards such a society. I believe it can only be perceived that way if you omit the large parts of society and especially the world as a whole. Local things like changes in living standard for most of the population, crime rates, organized crime. International things like piracy, human trafficking, corruption in different parts of the world. If you look beyond a local bubble, there doesnt seem to be much implying much was heading towards a society you refer to.

I do not wish to imply you don't think critically, just that there are too many topics for anyone to inform themselves about all of them. At best we are aware of what we know more about and what we know less about.

Regarding critical thought:

While I believe it is important to teach youth about independant thought and critical thinking, I also want for young people to have a somewhat sheltered youth and not to worry about all the horrible things in the world. As so many things it's complicated.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#626

Post by risyachka »

sdevonoes wrote: post #587
koonsolo wrote: post #511

I have a different message: Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. Ukrainians were able to overthrow their government, and so can you.

> Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. So, you are saying that one should risk their life for their country? No, thank you. I never understood this kind of "patriotism".

If they don't - they shouldn't complain that all this shit is on them. Because it is.

Without patriotism there would not be a country where you are at now, no matter which one it is.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#627

Post by nofuture1 »

sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

Apologies for using a throwaway account.

It is true that the idea of suffering have been engraved into the Russian culture, for centuries. It is the ever-present fear of what could happen next, based on what has happened in the past. The fear of things getting even worse, despite everything being bad already. The longing for a chance to have even a short period of normal life, before everything inevitably falls apart (because it always does, roughly twice per century). The idea of accepting the current reality as something immutable and just trying to live with it. The idea of personal (rather than collective) survival. Of course in these circumstances you rarely have the luxury to think about what is right.

Now, that is exactly what state media has learned to exploit. They were selling the idea that nothing _too_ bad will happen if everyone just stays away from politics. Well, now the worst happened. It has been only a few days, and not many people have realized what is coming next. A collapse of economy at this scale will inevitably lead to a massive increase of hunger, crime and death. And — I am not even sure it can change those people's collective behavior.

Personally, I am trying to do my part, but I do not believe my work is going to be of any significance. Maybe it's the "soul".

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#628

Post by willis936 »

sdevonoes wrote: post #587
koonsolo wrote: post #511

I have a different message: Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. Ukrainians were able to overthrow their government, and so can you.

> Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. So, you are saying that one should risk their life for their country? No, thank you. I never understood this kind of "patriotism".

Options:

Fight

Flight

Starve

Advocating for fight is reasonable because it has the most benefit but the highest activation energy.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#629

Post by cbg0 »

sdevonoes wrote: post #587
koonsolo wrote: post #511

I have a different message: Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. Ukrainians were able to overthrow their government, and so can you.

> Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. So, you are saying that one should risk their life for their country? No, thank you. I never understood this kind of "patriotism".

You should first and foremost be willing to risk your life for your family, loved ones, as well as your children, for which you probably want a good/better future.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#630

Post by risyachka »

hnhg wrote: post #612
koonsolo wrote: post #511

I have a different message: Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. Ukrainians were able to overthrow their government, and so can you.

Didn't work in Syria.

Worked in US, France, Germany and every country in the world - all of them had revolutions and led to the change.
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