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Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

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Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#621

Post by josephcsible »

drekk wrote: post #551
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hate them for inflating the currency, giving everyone stimulus and so many benefits it’s hard to hire, for forcing their businesses to shut down for months and have 50% of small restaurants go insolvent for “two weeks to slow the spread,” for forcing people to work from home suddenly and the productivity damages and delays initially caused… There’s plenty to hate and more.

This is a pretty mask-off (excuse the pun) moment in your argument. So to protect small businesses we shouldn't have paid people at all or closed down at any point and we'd have more than a million dead Americans but at least workers would still be as expendable? You don't get to call us "essential workers" and treat us like shit. This is the first time in my living memory McDonald's and co raised their starting wage…

> we'd have more than a million dead Americans

We would? How do you know?

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#622

Post by lljk_kennedy »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #273
throwawayyear22 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In regards to the media, parents could be more dismissive of the doom and gloom. Instead I watch parents repeat in front of their children that corporations are evil, sea level will rise by 10's of feet soon, racism everywhere, reverse racism everywhere, the China Communists will take over the world, that the U.S. doesn't manufacture anything, etc. I recall one adult in my entire childhood that laughed off a doom and…

Hi, one of those parents here. I have on occasion reminded my daughter that the world she’ll grow up in will not be as abundantly beautiful as it is today. Just as it isn’t for me compared to when I was younger. I’ve also, at those times, reminded her that she has the power and responsibility to be a good steward of the world because nothing is writ in stone. Just reminding you that cautionary tales aren’t always sim…

This sounds horrendous. The worst thing that you could say about your parent’s approach was that you felt “out of touch”. What do you think your child will say about you?

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#623

Post by yucky »

javagram wrote: post #423
chernevik wrote: post #415

The US policy response has been far more costly and destructive than it needed to be. The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. It has been as if COVID was the only risk and the only negative, and any other matter was necessarily secondary. To even mention these…

> The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. Anyone who went to an open bar or a packed church service in the USA in December 2020 can tell that governors and the courts were both very sensitive to business and religious concerns about impact on worship, business…

>0.3% is the case only after torturing statistics

Ironic, since a 0.3% (or 0.6%) fatality rate is vastly exaggerated for people in low risk groups. The only reason the number is even that high is due to the high death tolls of people in high risk groups.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#624

Post by makomk »

maxerickson wrote: post #592
makomk wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current vaccines are leaky enough that any reductions in social restrictions below strict lockdown mean pretty much everyone is going to get Covid, generally over a very short time period. There doesn't seem to be any way around this. Also, the feasibility of putting lesser restrictions in place to try and spread the hospital load out is damaged by the fact that protection from vaccination fades relatively quickl…

There's basically no boosted folks spending time in the hospital in this dataset, and very few vaccinated: https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1479528897259712513 US data has a similar separation between vaccinated and not: https://twitter.com/cliffordlevy/status/1480184928054779905 I guess if people are making their decisions based on a belief that significant reductions in hospitalization aren't beneficial, tha…

That graph is from the UK, where most of the people spending time in hospital due to Covid are vaccinated. The thing is that as you can see from the graph, there's a huge difference in hospitalisation rates between age groups, and in the UK there's not that many unvaccinated people amongst the high-risk age groups. (Actually, I'd be interested what the error bars on that are because they're subtracting vaccinations from the population estimate to get the denominator of total unvaccinated people and it seems like that'd be very sensitive to errors in their population estimate.)

So there is a signficant reduction in the risk of hospitalisation from vaccination right now, but we're seeing close to all the benefit that we're likely to at least from a society-wide perspective. There's no way to stop the hospital system from collapsing just by rounding up the remaining unvaccinated and getting them vaccinated. (Individual unvaccinated people might of course get a lot of personal benefit from getting jabbed, depending on age and health.)

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#625

Post by Krasnol »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #617
Krasnol wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you measure "questionable benefits"? As a Government you have to protect every single citizen. Lifes have been saved because of lockdowns, vaccination, masks, etc. Not doing that and letting everybody get Covid to see who survives is barbaric. I know that it's no seen that way in the US since this has been your culture but you should accept that it's not seen that way in civilized countries.

Lives have also been lost because of lockdowns, vaccination, masks, etc. Pretending that lockdowns have no collateral damage upon families, businesses, education, and so on is barbaric. And pretending that people aren't allowed to weigh the pros and cons of these actions without being called names is also not the hallmark of a civilized country.

What is your point? Would you have wanted EVEN MORE dead people?

Nobody is pretending that lockdown hurt people. This is a strawman.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#626

Post by scollet »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #502
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody guarantees small businesses the right to exist. Sure nobody can plan for a pandemic but the government’s responsibility is to society at large, not the plight of small business owners.

Okay, society at large has 47.5% of its people employed by small businesses. If you removed their right to exist, you’d have 50% unemployment. Also, what the heck? The Supreme Court has ruled businesses have some constitutional protections repeatedly.

Jobs don't magically disappear like that.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#627

Post by mbg721 »

javagram wrote: post #423
chernevik wrote: post #415

The US policy response has been far more costly and destructive than it needed to be. The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. It has been as if COVID was the only risk and the only negative, and any other matter was necessarily secondary. To even mention these…

> The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. Anyone who went to an open bar or a packed church service in the USA in December 2020 can tell that governors and the courts were both very sensitive to business and religious concerns about impact on worship, business…

> Anyone who went to an open bar or a packed church service in the USA in December 2020 can tell that governors and the courts were both very sensitive to business and religious concerns about impact on worship, business, and employment.

By December maybe, but earlier in 2020 this varied greatly by state, and there are plenty of educational, business, and religious institutions that still haven't recovered. I think people are underestimating just how much damage was done.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#628

Post by fineIllregister »

chernevik wrote: post #415

The US policy response has been far more costly and destructive than it needed to be. The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. It has been as if COVID was the only risk and the only negative, and any other matter was necessarily secondary. To even mention these…

My observations are the opposite.

US pandemic policy response has assumed the cost of shutdown to be infitinte, and has not appropriately reckoned with the coats of letting the virus proliferate, save for the risk of mass death by overwhelming hospital capacity.

The shutdowns (shelter-in-place orders) were short and have been over for more than a year now. Governors have been eager to consistently reduce mitigation measures as fast as possible.

We're seeing the strain on our health care system. Medical staff are overworked and heavily traumatized, leading to a bidding war for their labor. Less staff leads to harder work, and can go into a death spiral. We might reach a tipping point where our health care system collapses.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#629

Post by giantg2 »

sethammons wrote: post #612
giantg2 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, how old were they?

Kindergarten age. Edit, looked it up: https://frontporchne.com/article/parents-threatened-jail-fre...

Would be nice if the article mentions the actual law.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#630

Post by pandaman »

afavour wrote: post #506
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had family members telling me that the news was spreading fear and panic back then, and that we should not lock down even for two weeks because, in their own words, “they won’t let us out.” I was skeptical and accepted the lockdown for two weeks. We only just started getting out more than three months later. Either my family was really unusually right… or there was a percentage of people saying it was a bad idea th…

That’s still applying hindsight logic, though. At the start of the pandemic we didn’t know enough about the virus to know what was and was not necessary. Your family applied their skepticism of government to speculate that the lockdown would be a long one. That speculation would turn out to be correct but unless you’re in a family of epidemiologists they weren’t correct because they understood the virus better than a…

Imagine you have a car problem and take it to a mechanic. Mechanic says: "You have to rebuild the engine ASAP, otherwise the engine is going to explode and you lose the whole car". You pay for the engine rebuild, the car is still broken and the mechanic says: "Oh, I did not know what is wrong with your car, don't hindsight me."

What would you do in such a case:

a) agree that you are over the line with your complaints and keep listening to the same mechanic

b) go to someone else with your mechanical issues and sue the mechanic for the engine rebuild

c) something else?

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