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My First Impressions of Web3

moxie.org

621–630 of 1001 posts

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#621
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another moment I would critique is the clever NFT, that displays different things. Yes, ERC-721 allows any URL as metadata file, so you can put traditional DNS-resolved URL there. But I would struggle to find any "respected" NFT collection that actually does that. Almost every high quality NFT project (Art Blocks, BAYC, so on) has IPFS as metadata URL, and goes as far as to freeze metadata, so it couldn't ever be ch…

> There's nothing stopping an artist from selling a work of art as edition 1 of 1, and then a month later "minting" another copy or 10. There is a social cost to making a promise and breaking it. > What happens if someone steals someone else's work, mints an NFT and sells it, and the buyer finds out the next day? Don't buy from random sources. You have similar problems with Pokemon cards, for example. Lots of fakes a…

"social cost" sounds like another way of saying "real-world trust".

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#622
post #25

As an engineer, I feel like this single post helped me better understand Web3 and how it worked under the hood better than any of the heavily hyped Discord and Twitter announcements of new projects over the past year. It's interesting how tightly coupled Metamask is to all of the other big crypto / NFT marketplaces. Feels like the "distributed web" portion of it has just been an over-exaggeration all along.

> Feels like the "distributed web" portion of it has just been an over-exaggeration all along.

It has, but only a small portion of people with the engineering skills to recognize knew it. Those profiting off it hyped it, and those not either called it a scam or stayed out of the fray.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#623

"With the shift to mobile, we now live firmly in a world of clients and servers – with the former completely unable to act as the latter – and those questions seem more important to me than ever. Meanwhile, ethereum actually refers to servers as “clients,” so there’s not even a word for an actual untrusted client/server interface that will have to exist somewhere, and no acknowledgement that if successful there will…

Can you transparently see all the code and databases for the websites you use and all the bank code and transactions?

The average user (the same user that doesn't want to be bothered with running a server at home) doesn't care about this, I don't think. Most people would prefer to rely on a trusted authority or expert for this sort of thing.

When talking about democratization, the average user is probably the only user that matters.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#624
I love so much of what moxie is saying here. I also feel differently on some important points.

I believe all the issues discussed here are real. Some are even mildly terrifying to the point of being hysterical.

Interestingly, I think all these issues are solvable and it’s made me immensely more interested in doing some research.

I find it oddly inspiration so thanks for that as well! Really great read, just the kind of content I want to see!

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#625
post #25

As an engineer, I feel like this single post helped me better understand Web3 and how it worked under the hood better than any of the heavily hyped Discord and Twitter announcements of new projects over the past year. It's interesting how tightly coupled Metamask is to all of the other big crypto / NFT marketplaces. Feels like the "distributed web" portion of it has just been an over-exaggeration all along.

Seems like you (and a vast majority of HN including Moxie) is tying web3 to several centralized front ends (Metamask/OpenSea). I saw this back in the 90's when a lot of people thought the internet was "Internet Explorer".

> is tying web3 to several centralized front ends (Metamask/OpenSea).

You can't really lump both of those into the same bucket of "front-end". Metamask is a front-end, a user interface. OpenSea is more like middlewear that connects various front-end clients like Metamask to the backend database, and provides some additional functionality that's in any of the database's stored procedures or views. OpenSea also has its own front-end UI to its own service, but its core service is its API to the Ethereum database.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where it falls apart for me too, people are paying huge sums for artificially scarce links to someone else’s server? I keep feeling like I’m missing something.

No, they are paying huge sums for a digital certificate of ownership of the content on some else’s server; the link is just the description of what they are certified to own, like the address on a deed. (There's all kinds of problems with it, sure, but they aren't paying for the link.)

The value of a deed is that it's recognized by a legal system, which is backed by a police force, who you can call if some guy shows up claiming that your house actually belongs to him.

With an NFT, you don't get that. It's equivalent to your county clerk's deed registry, including the $100 filing fee, and excluding the legal machinery which gives the deed registry its value.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#627
post #541

This post really resonates with me, I've been building https://raremints.club as a way for indie, non technical artists to create NFT's, and have really had to wrestle with all things "web3" that would've been trivial in "web2". I tried to document some of the challenges here: https://chriszhu12.medium.com/the-challenges-of-building-on-... But basically: I built an app that relied on mostly stable gas fees. A single…

Wow. I was thinking about making a game and saving player state in a similar way to what caused the gas prices to spike for everyone. I'm floored by the ramifications. My stomach feels very queasy with OP's article, and now yours.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#628
Moxie is missing a very important point:

0. People want control.

People run servers because they don't want their operations to be affected by the arbitrary whims of some third party. When issues inevitably occur, they want to have as much control over the situation as possible so that they can remedy the issue as optimally as possible.

This issue was wonderfully illustrated to you by OpenSea when they unilaterally removed your poop NFT and offered the generic "You violated our ToS, we wont tell you how, and no there is no appeal". This is the fundamental reason why cryptocurrencies took off. No more arbitrary rules from whimsical payment processors.

I agree that Web3, as currently implemented, is a regression. Hopefully they manage to fix their flaws before the whole thing falls apart.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#629
The server here is actually not a centralize server in a traditional world. It's a node that connect to the network and replica state.

When running transaction, you send it to that node, that node then broadcast it to network. This node here is like a replica in a traditional database.

You can run that node, and talk to it through http, websocket.

The point about trusting server signature the author bring up is bad IMHO. Even with a database, if you install some malicious Postgres package that return fake data for example, it doesn't help you at all if you enable TLS or not.

The point about verification is that read-only data isn't important because write always get verified. If you connect to a malicious node, that change the data it returns to you on purpose, then it's fine. But when you write data to the system, it always get verify so it isn't a problem at all.

The point here is that you are the one that run that node, and you are responsible for it. Entire point of Ethereum is that anyone can run node that connect to the network to replicate its state.

If you take out all the hype(OpenSea is a massive scam here no argue), I found web3 is really amazing.

1. It's a public dataset that anyone can read data and listen to event

anyone know something like that in current web1/2? Example, when I bough a domain name on namecheap or google domain. Can anyone know that? When I change my DNS, do anyone know that?

With Ethereum when you run a WRITE method on a smart contract, when you transfer event. Everything can be emitted. And you can listen to it.

The code is almost always open source.

2. Build-in Authentication System

Many website use wallet to sign in but didn't verified a signature. In fact, that signing is very cool in deed. That signature verifcation ensure that only you can sign that data, send it to server and server can verified it with your public key, which is part of your address

3. No one can stop you

If you search hacker news, you will found many people got blocked/suspended randomly by Stripe, Paypal then what do you do?

4. Openness

This is a system that anyone can read. Think about that for a second. Anyone can read its data. Without the need of any API. Everything follow a standard, which is smart contract.

Anyone can write, if you're willing to pay.

You're pretty much can see the code of any legitimate company. Pretty much all of them published their contract on ethscan, to make it convenience for you to run directly.

If you don't like some webui, you can just write to its directly.

Literally just a `curl`, without you to even register for an account.

I know that many people like to dismiss web3, the term is broad and bad IMHO, but think about the thing that it gives us. I can think of some example how web3 is great.

1. ACL: any changes is published, if a malicious activity happen, pretty much anyone can monitor it 2. Charity Fund: we can see what happen with the fund, transfer to where, when, who made it

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#630

Really liked this post - brings up some great points, and I consider Moxie a friend. Here are a few notes that came to mind though... 1. For NFTs, some keep their data in IPFS (decentralized file storage) or in the smart contract itself for procedurally generated images. We (as a community) should probably move more to solutions like this over time, since it is indeed more decentralized to build them that way. 2. I a…

1) The addressing side of IPFS could probably actually be standardized to be as ubiquitous as URLs or email addresses. DNS style stuff is honestly a reasonably good blockchain fit. The storage and server side of it still has a ton of gaps, where lessons learned from torrents are being somewhat inefficiently rediscovered.

4) It sounds like the data available already from those two isn't that simple and is likely to only become more complex over time.

Heck, web2 is still using a ton of web1 components. What are the forces to push some dapp to be fully decentralized e2e?

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