Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#621

Post by paisawalla » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:51 PM UTC

mike00632 wrote: post #500

akira2501 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The murder rate varies widely by state/area. One fact about murders that has exceptionally low variance is the likelihood of personally knowing the person that murders you. This is 90%, in almost all circumstances and areas. Means, the gun, is only one part of the equation and has been noted generally the smallest. Motive is far more important when attempting to put murder rates into context.

Ok, so we can either enact gun reform like most of the entire world has done or we can completely alienate ourselves from other people in hopes they don't shoot us. Do you see why gun-ownership is an anti-social trait?

In most gun owning areas of the country, people have managed to be safe and have friends, so your theory is somewhat lacking.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#622

Post by neonbones » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:51 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #577

neonbones wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rate of shooting in the USA was always strange to me. I'm from Ukraine, one of the poorest countries in Europe, the country that on hybrid "civil war" with Russia help for the militia. There are many ex-militaries from volunteers who go to volunteer battalions. And many of them return with guns. But even with a state like that, you probably won't hear any gunshots in cities in your life. The first time I heard on…

Ignore averages. They are often deceptive, and here as well. Most places in the US have zero gangs, and many places have zero murders. The question is: why are murders so out of control in certain areas? And the answer is: local policing and local politics. DAs don't prosecute, and so police won't risk their life to bring people in. They show up 30 minutes later as the clean up crew. So it's actually fairly normal fo…

Thanks for the informative answer.

Cant the "roots" be also in segregation problems before? If I remember correctly what I learned early, it was called something like "red lining" created "bad neighborhoods" in cities.

>My guess is that Ukrainians just don't have time for that kind of nonsense. If someone is violent, they are put away quickly.

It is mostly true for Ukraine. But the real curse, as I said, is not organized crime, gangs, or someone with a firearm. The biggest problem in Ukraine is domestic violence. Most police officers don't have any weapon here except pepper sprays, stun guns, and other non-lethal tools. They usually fight with a drunk 40-something man who will get drunk and try to kill his family after that.

Domestic violence is a curse for CIS countries. And even if Ukraine changed government and how everything works with new and young politicians, you can't change people. In the end, 40%+ of the population suffers violence, and most of them, of course, are women. Great inheritance from the Soviet era, where "no violence, no sex, no drugs, only happy people." https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Violence_against_women_in_Ukrain...

>According to the estimation of OSCE the violence towards women is widespread in Ukraine and it is associated with three times more deaths than the ongoing War in Donbas in the Donbas region of Ukraine

Fragment from the Wiki article. More women get killed by their husbands than people die in the ongoing war with artillery, tanks, aviation, etc. This is as bad as you can imagine when you read it.

Want to know how Russia fights domestic violence? They just decriminalized it, that's all. They don't even try anymore, so the only help you can get is from non-profit organizations.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#623

Post by 0xB31B1B » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:51 PM UTC

thordenmark wrote: post #586

Afghanistan showed that a people with the will and some handguns and rifles can face the greatest superpower the world has ever known, and win. The argument of private ownership of guns as protection from the government is a perfectly valid one.

the huge majority of deaths and chaos in Afghanistan wasn't caused by handguns guns, it was caused by IEDs.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#624

Post by qeternity » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:53 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #422

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. Yeah, I'd add that France doesn't have a long, porous border with the developing world. Nor nearly as much heterogeneity in its population.

I'm not actually sure how accurate that is. France has an ethnically and religiously heterogeneous population, high levels of immigration from Africa, and open borders with the rest of the EU.

You’re drastically over estimating the amount of African immigrants in France.

And very few people are immigrating from the rest of the EU (in fact, French immigrants are a bit of a meme everywhere else, escaping high taxation).

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#625

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:53 PM UTC

The personal safety issue is being covered a lot here, but I think some people are missing something else; guns are a lot of fun. In an era where bars and movie theaters were closed due to pandemic, you could safety go to an outside range and ring steel instead. This is particularly relevant if you consider the ongoing shortage in 22lr, a cartridge which is woefully underpowered for self defense, but ideal for killing soda cans and learning the basics of marksmanship.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#626

Post by megablast » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:54 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #268

sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

New world?? Are you kidding?? Talk about cherry picking.

What about comparing it to Australia or NZ??

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#627

Post by chmod600 » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:54 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #547

chmod600 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rational person compares risks on an absolute scale first. Out of all the things that could happen on a given day, is getting murdered a real concern? For people in the U.S., it's not really worth worrying about unless you have some other risk factors for murder, like criminal activity. If you are selling lion repellant that makes a lion attack 80% less likely, that's not something I'd be interested in. That being…

When the mobs came to a town next door last year, I knew the safety of my family hinged on which street they were going to choose to go down next, and my own ability to respond. I watched them smash windows and set fires with zero police response. Any doubts I may have had about my gun collection went out the window that night. The "guns as fire extinguisher" analogy is apt. It wasn't likely that a mob would threaten…

The poster to whom I replied was citing averages, which are useless in the context of a large, diverse place like the US with a non-uniform distribution.

The average murder rate in the US is a distraction, except to point out (as I did) that obviously people aren't dropping like flies. If any significant fraction of those 300M guns were killing people, the average would be several orders of magnitude higher than it is.

Go ahead and exercise your personal rights to defend yourself and your family as you see fit based on your values and risk profile.

The averages neither support the idea that we should ban guns, nor that we should all get one. Because, again, averages are pretty useless -- but that's the context of the current thread of discussion, so I felt a need to respond.

EDIT: major rewording for clarity.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#628

Post by 01100011 » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:55 PM UTC

content_sesh wrote: post #363

01100011 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a way to feel masculine, or to feel potent This smacks of the modern left's derision for self defense tools. It's a nicer way of saying someone has a gun to compensate for their genital insecurities. Guns are largely a tool to the people purchasing them. They are also mechanical objects which give pleasure to people who appreciate craftsmanship. I generally agree with your post, but I think it would be better witho…

The left (both modern and not) is much less self-defense averse than you think. There's plenty of leftist gun clubs; the Socialist Rifle Association and Redneck Revolt, formerly John Brown Gun Club, come to mind immediately. There's also the long history of unions literally going to war against capitalists, like in the Battle of Matewan. Also worth remembering that leftist groups like the BPP encouraging its members…

Sure, without a doubt. Are there any major political parties on the left with pro-gun or not-anti-gun platforms though?

I feel like the political parties of the left use fear of guns like the political parties of the right use fear of non-whites.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#629

Post by megablast » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

rufus_foreman wrote: post #543

sillysaurusx wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I winced when you started the comparison with Brazil and Mexico. Those countries may be New World, but anybody who's visited Mexico knows not to go random places alone. In other words, if Brazil and Mexico are our points of comparison, we're... not in a situation I'd want to be in, to put it diplomatically. Reddit's running joke is that every gunfight happened in Brazil. In fact, I often wonder if most of the gunfigh…

Mexico is a big country. There are places in Mexico where you can go random places alone, and places that it would be ill-advised. There are places in the US where you can go random places alone, and places that it would be ill-advised. There are places in the Baltimore metro area where you can go random places alone, and places that it would be ill-advised.

This is the only metric you can find where these two countries are comparable??

The famous”some places you can walk alone, some you can’t” statistic??

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#630

Post by philwelch » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:57 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #486

philwelch wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

I winced when you started the comparison with Brazil and Mexico. Those countries may be New World, but anybody who's visited Mexico knows not to go random places alone. In other words, if Brazil and Mexico are our points of comparison, we're... not in a situation I'd want to be in, to put it diplomatically. Reddit's running joke is that every gunfight happened in Brazil. In fact, I often wonder if most of the gunfigh…

Brazilian gunfights between criminals and off-duty cops are a pretty big trope when it comes to videos of self-defense incidents. Of course, off-duty cops are basically the only Brazilians allowed to conceal carry.

Numbers wise, we are doing much better than Mexico and Brazil, by about the same factor that France is doing better than we are and Japan is doing better than France. US homicide rates are a lot closer to Greenland or Argentina, and significantly less than a lot of nice LatAm countries that are popular with Western expats such as Costa Rica or Panama or Uruguay. The legality and availability of firearms cannot fully explain these differences, and it’s incomplete to simply compare the US to the EU.