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Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#621

Post by adventured »

kilroy123 wrote: post #428
docflabby wrote: post #20

I think fear is making people in general just clam up. Anything you say can be taken as offensive and the crowds bay for blood.

This is what I was thinking. I find myself just staying way quieter around everyone these days. Men and women. It's too easy to say the wrong thing and take some serious heat.

The only rational strategy today is to give absolutely nothing away whenever possible. That includes never posting anything under your name online, not under any circumstances - unless you have no choice, for professional / work reasons.

Every opinion has an easily triggered mob attached to it now, so some mob group will target you if you get any attention upon you.

It's amazing how fast the US became a 99% censored nation (either self-censored, mob cancelled, or censored by big tech), terrified, buried under authoritarian & hyper angry mobs desperate to attack other people. It happened within a single decade.

It's going to get a lot worse yet. I used to tell myself that living in the US was worthwhile despite its flaws because at least we had tremendous free speech protections (and most countries do not), and that's no longer true de facto. The US is arguably now worse - in reality, not the pretend notion that free speech still technically exists - than more speech censoring nations like Canada.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#622

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

uyt wrote: post #598
kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj wrote: post #259

I had an experience at work where a coworker (who is black) shared his experience of being told to "stay in his lane" early on in his career. The insinuation was of course racism, he didn't mention it but it was obvious. Then I and someone else (who are white) shared our exact same experiences. He told me he felt cut off, etc, even though we were sharing the same experience. If we had something similar happen, how ca…

I was discussing programming puzzles with a new group of colleagues. The way these discussions typically go is that after most of us solve it, they will start giving hints/spoilers to others to keep the conversation flowing. So I did this as usual and offered a hint to the last person (who was a woman) to not see the trick this time. It surprised me when she looked visibly upset and asked me why I was explaining it t…

Can insecurity be ascribed to gender? If it was a man, and they got offended, could we say it's also because he was insecure about not finishing in time? I think it's difficult to say gender as the de facto reason here. I'm not ruling it out, but I don't think it can be labeled a certainty, either.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#623

Post by jberryman »

julianmarq wrote: post #584
jberryman wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe these fragile adult millionaire men could just... try harder? have more tact? Maybe we should have higher expectations of these men to have a little more awareness? All that's assuming this phenomenon is even real, and not just an excuse for the author to grind her PeE cEe cUlTuRe axe; the whole thing is conveniently framed with "oh, but of course none of these people I'm not naming could ever admit that wha…

> try harder? have more tact? [...] have a little more awareness? But isn't the cautious behavior mentioned already an example of this?

The article describes men who feel so incapable of expressing themselves in a way that can't be reasonably construed as sexist that they don't say anything. I think this is irrational, demeaning to women, and frankly pathetic.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#624

Post by KptMarchewa »

awb wrote: post #499
Thorentis wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is described in the article isn't sexism - it's fear. Fear of being labeled as a sexist.

It’s probably both. The men are assuming based on the female founder’s gender _alone_ that she might accuse him of sexism. Regardless of how rational this fear is, they are stereotyping new female founders they’re meeting for the first time based on what an X% of other female founder’s have done in the past. For the men, it’s probably a risk/reward calculation. Keep your head down and be polite and have ~0% chance of…

It's not just only stereotyping, it's just that there's real possibility. That would never happen with men. Women have the power to label you sexist, men don't.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#626

Post by quiescant_dodo »

downandout wrote: post #544
downandout wrote: post #502

Anyone who is pragmatic and willing to take open and honest advice/criticism from people they respect needs to advertise themselves that way in today’s environment. It is on the entrepreneur to convince the person from whom they are seeking advice that they will not regret giving it. As an alternative, perhaps investors should offer an optional “advice NDA” that would allow them to speak more freely, with less fear o…

For the (at least) 2 people that downvoted this: what part of this comment is controversial or offends you? I don’t see it, and I would love to understand. Downvoting without comment does no good for anyone.

I didn't downvote, as I think this adds to the conversation. But as a _systemic solution_, I don't think the "advice NDA" holds up.

As a one-off (or a personal "hack"), the NDA is an offering of empathy. Sharing sincere feedback is hard. Offering the NDA shows that the advice-asker is worried about the advice-giver's well-being. It's nice and genuine, and I hope it will work.

But, this idea seems so GOOD at first blush, that I'm afraid it will become widespread and lose sincerity. Anytime feedback is involved, the NDA appears as legal boilerplate. It's no longer a personal connection built on shared vulnerability. Instead, it's a corporate threat: "If you want advice, we can either be friends or go to court."

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#627

Post by ip26 »

ntr-- wrote: post #603
danielvaughn wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better and worse ways to communicate, sure. But fundamentally, you cannot control how people interpret the words that you say.

I disagree. Effective communication requires effort, but many people speak impulsively and fail to convey what they actually mean. If someone is unable to clearly express themselves without being misunderstood then either their thoughts need to be distilled further or the statement needs to be carefully worded. If I am not responsible for how people interpret my words, who is?

I disagree

I am deeply aggrieved by your clear insinuation that your parent comment is a dim-witted noodlehead.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#628

Post by j16sdiz »

ntr-- wrote: post #603
danielvaughn wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better and worse ways to communicate, sure. But fundamentally, you cannot control how people interpret the words that you say.

I disagree. Effective communication requires effort, but many people speak impulsively and fail to convey what they actually mean. If someone is unable to clearly express themselves without being misunderstood then either their thoughts need to be distilled further or the statement needs to be carefully worded. If I am not responsible for how people interpret my words, who is?

Sure.

But distilling an idea can take lots of time. In the startup partner scenario, one want quick, honest feedback and start the discussion to refine the idea.

Holding up ideas from your partner is... Less then ideal.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#629

Post by [deleted] »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #5

I'm really glad to see this here. I don't have a better word readily available than sexism for trying to talk about patterns like this but when I use the word sexism , I think people think I mean "Men are intentionally exclusionary assholes just to be assholes because they simply hate women." and that's never what I'm trying to say. I find my gender is a barrier to getting traction and my experience is that it's due…

[deleted]
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