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Flutter 2

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Re: Flutter 2

#621

Post by nmfisher »

iainmerrick wrote: post #532

It’s strange to keep citing https://flutterplasma.dev/ as a sample app. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a nifty and well-written little demo, but it doesn’t demonstrate anything you’d actually need in an app . As a sample for a game engine it would make sense.

I assume it's intended to show web rendering performance, not demonstrate its viability as an app framework.

As a Flutter developer, I don't think Flutter will ever be a great choice for a lot of text-heavy things that people generally consider "web apps" (just going through my tabs now - GitHub, StackOverflow, reddit, Gmail, Wikipedia).

But it will really shine for "traditional" desktop-type applications, but delivered via web (think Rive, Figma, Filmora, etc). I think that's why they're focusing on rendering performance.

That being said, Figma have done an amazing job with WebAssembly (and I guess they rolled their own UI framework?), so it's not like Flutter is the be-all and end-all.

Re: Flutter 2

#622

Post by dshpala »

ignoramous wrote: post #231
eseidelGoogle wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Flutter Eng. Dir here] We were also not satisfied with the performance of the initial GPay release. We've been working with the GPay team the last couple months and have made significant improvements within both Flutter and the GPay app. Hopefully the next release of GPay will be out soon and others will be able to see the progress we're continuing to make with the team.

Thanks. Not related to Flutter but Google in general: I recently hit a hard-to-reproduce bug with Jetpack's LiveData for which there's already an open issue created by a third-party developer. I don't recall but it had been open since 2018 with no updates whatsoever from Google engineers on its progress. And therein lies a frustrating problem for engineers not working at Google but using Google tech. There is simply…

Hmm, LiveData is pretty straightforward class, over the years I think I memorized its implementation. I'm curious what's the issue is?

Re: Flutter 2

#623

Post by mixmastamyk »

oblio wrote: post #384
okamiueru wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could create an abstract class for the base response, then implement this abstract class for the two cases one where it has a list member, and one where it contains the object. Then, using the return value with something like `if (response is listLike) { }` the IDE already knows that you are scoped to having only the list like properties, and you'd get the full help of the language. Something like that, I suppose…

Versus a sort of: my_type = my_list | my_object ? You can see why this is better :-)

I'd always return a list. Makes the client code simpler.

Re: Flutter 2

#624

Post by anthropodie »

ryanwhitney wrote: post #192
randomchars wrote: post #35

The idea sounds very appealing, especially to an indie developer: being able to ship your app on multiple platforms from a single codebase is kind of the holy grail. Unfortunately, the result is.... I tested this Flutter example[1], on a 16" MBP with and i7, and it is janky as it can get, it feels like I'm using a 15 year old computer. From the code it looks like the whole thing is... rendered on canvas? I'll pass. […

Wow, this is some of the worst scrolling I’ve experienced on the web in a long time. Incredibly weird and not smooth at all on both a newer iPhone and Mac. Can’t copy text either.

Flutter web is not ready. They should just stop advertising flutter web. It is ruining reputation of Flutter for Android/iOS.

Re: Flutter 2

#625

Post by danielscrubs »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #294
oblio wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Syntax, semantics, code organization and best practices, libraries, frameworks, debugging and debuggers, IDE support (preferably multiple IDEs for multiple platforms), LSP support, linters, profilers, disassemblers, dependency license checkers, dependency vulnerability scanners, package managers, package repository with support for private repos and proxying/mirroring, should I go on and on and on? Your toy app takes…

> crappy tech What kind of an argument is this? Not wanting to learn all those things for multiple languages is valid. But "it would take a while" doesn't tell you anything about whether a language is crappy. The odds are pretty close to 50:50 that the language you already know is the crappier one.

Here are some benchmarks:

https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...

The Dart implementation seems much slower than the NodeJs implementation and it doesn’t bring anything new to the table? It added null safety today.

Anyone that knows if it has any feature beyond for example what Ocaml has?

Re: Flutter 2

#626

Post by Jyaif »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #378
eseidelGoogle wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Flutter Eng. Dir. here] Still relatively early days for Flutter Web, so I would not be shocked if it's not buttery everywhere. However, we would certainly love to learn more. fluter.dev/support has links as to how to file an issue if you're interested. https://flutterplasma.dev/ is one demo to try. We expect to be updating flutter.dev/web and flutter.dev/showcase to update more over time.

The plasma demo you linked runs at a stuttery 40fps on Firefox (ubuntu 20.10) on a quad core Ryzen 5 laptop. The fans immediately spin to max speed. I'm not impressed... Here's a hard question, why is this surprising to you? What are you missing in development--is this a gap in testing? Are you hamstrung without support internally to bake this as long as it needs? Rather than double-down on extolling the virtues here…

60 fps on a 2016 macbook. Maybe you don't have GPU acceleration enabled?

Re: Flutter 2

#627

Post by oblio »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #623
oblio wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Versus a sort of: my_type = my_list | my_object ? You can see why this is better :-)

I'd always return a list. Makes the client code simpler.

You would. But not every input comes from you :-)

Re: Flutter 2

#628

Post by barbarbar »

0xFluegel wrote: post #461
danShumway wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if they've changed their approach over the past year, but the last time I looked at Qt demos for the web, I was solidly unimpressed. At the time, they were making almost all of the same mistakes that Flutter is, and the devs I talked to seemed to be of the opinion that those problems wouldn't be fixed until browsers started adding brand new capabilities specifically for them. Looking now at the demos at…

> Looking now at the demos at https://www.qt.io/qt-examples-for-webassembly , a lot of the same problems are jumping out at me. A complete lack of accessibility features, poor handling of scroll events, large load times, unfocusable fields, lack of keyboard controls, etc... I found that hard to believe. But, clicking that link and trying the pizza demo... Yikes. It's not exaggerated at all.

When I try that link I get: RangeError: WebAssembly.Memory(): could not allocate memory

So no pizza demo for me.

Re: Flutter 2

#629

Post by csells »

jessaustin wrote: post #395
eseidelGoogle wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Flutter Eng. Dir. here] I really appreciate the feedback. We clearly have more work to do on the Web side of Flutter. Unlike the Mobile side which has shipped 100,000s of apps, the Web side may be up to like 1000. :) So many more issues to address as we work closely with more users to get their apps into production. If you'd like to track progress on any of these, I'd encourage you (or anyone else reading) to please…

[Flutter ... here] Currently I'm counting four or maybe five different HN users in this thread indicating this affiliation. I appreciate this open look into the organization. We're probably getting a more honest idea about what really goes into the sausage. Still, your PM might be less happy about this thread...

Actually, PMs love open, honest feedback. Keep it coming!

Chris Sells PM, Flutter

Re: Flutter 2

#630

Post by lrem »

selykg wrote: post #137
tvolkert wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter team member here. In Flutter, the developer consciously decides which text should be selectable (and thus copy/paste'able), so while it's true that text is not inherently selectable in a Flutter app, text that the app developer decided to make selectable will be.

This sounds awful. Like some sort of bullshit DRM in a way. Now I'm thinking of all the ways I could get screwed here. * Not being able to copy transactions from my bank account * Not being able to easily send text to a read-later service (not sure if this necessarily depends on selectable text, but who knows, maybe selectable means the text isn't visible to these services now) * Not being able to easily copy somethi…

When was the last time you tried to copy the text of the menu items of whatever native app you're using? Or the tab title?
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