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Coinbase S-1

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Re: Coinbase S-1

#621

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

The prevailing sentiment on HN has been wrong about cryptocurrency from Day 1. Source: Day 1 HN post -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=599852 If you have a truly revolutionary idea, expect the conventional wisdom on this website to be extremely negative.

That's not an accurate description. I think you might be falling prey to the sample bias where people heavily weight the comments they dislike and don't so much notice the others [1]. In fact that 3-comment thread covered the spectrum: enthusiasm, skepticism, bewilderment. I'd say it set the stage nicely for the next 12 years.

That thread wasn't the Day 1 post about cryptocurrency either. That would be https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=253963, which is even more interesting. If HN had a hall of fame, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=253999 would surely belong in it.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Coinbase S-1

#622

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

> For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto specifically.

The lack of vision panned out. Bitcoin is not a good currency, it is not bringing us into a decentralized land of milk and honey, it is environmentally ruinous, and all that it has accomplished is creating yet another financial gambling market. Broadly speaking, we already have enough of those. And I guess you can still use it to buy drugs. (Although, with $10 transaction fees, probably not. The drug folks would kindly prefer it if this whole bitcoin mania could blow over, and people could go back to gambling in Vegas, or on out-of-the-money GME calls, or whatever, so they could do their business in peace.)

Of the bright predictions of the future made in 2012 about it, the only relevant one that came to fruition by 2021 is 'Many people speculating on bitcoin made a lot of money.'

Of the dour predictions of the future made in 2012 about it, only the ones I listed came true.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#623

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

Engineers and technical people are cynical generally, but I agree. It comes out especially for crypto. Some of it could be jealousy. Watching “normies” make millions doing nothing more than buying early.

It's like a tax on confirmation bias.

It's easy to imagine having early awareness of cryptoassets but dismissing them as tulips when the total market value was $1m.

It's also easy to imagine not admitting the mistake after the next 10x to $10m. In fact, that explosive growth helped confirm the skeptics' thesis that it's a Ponzi about to implode.

So now that we've 10x'd five more times since then, it would be a tremendous psychological blow to capitulate now.

Those who preferred the comfort of confirmation bias to the discomfort of admitting they've been wrong all these years have paid an enormous price for that comfort.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t speak for everyone there, “we” don’t all have the same reason. I like Bitcoin as a diversification for being a “better version of gold” - it has the scarcity and you can physically own it but it is much easier to store and send anywhere in the world if needed. These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial syste…

> These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial system. At the time of writing this comment, if you want your BTC transaction confirmed in the next hour it would cost you ~ 10USD ( https://bitcoiner.live/ ) . What planet do you live on where you think a non-negligible percentage of people in ANY country, let alone a…

> Parasitic investors have strangled cryptocurrency. If you think Bitcoin can currently serve any purpose other than making rich people more rich, you're a fool.

This is an inevitable result of deflationary currency.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#625

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

> For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto specifically.

To be fair as a Bitcoiner, Coinbase represents THE WORST most toxic aspects of our ecosystem since MTGOX, and that may be stretching it because at least Mark didn't try to behave like a bank, he just kept messing up and was way over his head in a nascent economy. Coinbvase is a YC and VC backed compnay, eith all the trimining a predatory survielence based business from the valley has on top of MTGOX's unreliability.

Honestly,and used to want to work for them in the early days: screw coinbase, I hope they get wiped out before they sell to a institutional bank and hand over their large BTC reserves. I'd welcome the large price drop if they did, too!

Vulture capitalism is what they did before, so...

Re: Coinbase S-1

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the general perspective of Bitcoin specifically around here meshes with the general stance on a lot of topics. Bitcoin is the 1.0 cryptocurrency. It was groundbreaking, but it has technological deficiencies that are/were being addressed by improvements in the general technology of cryptocurrencies. But the Bitcoin protocol itself has demonstrated to be impossible to modernize, as even the most trivial change…

Why does Bitcoin need to modernize? There are other crypto projects that can fill in the holes that Bitcoin leaves (tx fees, slow, etc). Bitcoin is a fully secure, fully self-sufficient, global monetary system. It doesn't need to be lightning fast or super cheap. It needs to WORK, and work very well, which it has demonstrated.

Put the other way, why should Bitcoin not modernize?

It's already the leader by a long shot on network effects, stakeholders would be insane to squander that by letting other projects beat it technologically.

Obviously it can't move as fast as a smaller project (just like a large co vs a startup) but it will absolutely die if it doesn't move at all.

I view Bitcoin a lot like a company. Right now network security is paid for by inflation (issuing new coins), similar to a startup operating with VC money.

At the very least bitcoin must increase transaction volume so it can increase fee revenue without ridiculous individual transaction fees.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers and technical people are cynical generally, but I agree. It comes out especially for crypto. Some of it could be jealousy. Watching “normies” make millions doing nothing more than buying early.

It's like a tax on confirmation bias. It's easy to imagine having early awareness of cryptoassets but dismissing them as tulips when the total market value was $1m. It's also easy to imagine not admitting the mistake after the next 10x to $10m. In fact, that explosive growth helped confirm the skeptics' thesis that it's a Ponzi about to implode. So now that we've 10x'd five more times since then, it would be a tremen…

> So those who preferred the comfort of confirmation bias to the discomfort of admitting they've been wrong all these years have paid an enormous price for that comfort.

Suppose I bought $10,000 of BTC 8 years ago. The only reason I would have done so would have been for speculation, because I don't need to buy drugs on the internet, I don't need to send remittances to, (to use a shorthand) some 'other' country[1], and just like how I don't want to churn my own butter, I don't want to be my own bank.

Had I done so, I can safely predict, knowing everything I know about my psychology and temperament, I would not be a Bitcoin millionaire today. I would have closed my position at any one of a million points in between then and now.

It's a pretty easy temper on FOMO.

[1] To use a long-hand, that country would have to be legal for me to send money to, have a functioning and nearly-always-on internet system, and have a robust network of local bitcoin-for-cash money lenders, while also being almost entirely disconnected from traditional international banking.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#628

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

Any popular technology that's controversial has this problem on hacker news. Every discussion becomes a debate on the same old topics. It's like Go generics or Rails scalability.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain to me the technical reason as to why it costs $10, when it used to cost pennies (I think)? Has the proportion of transactions gone up compared to the miners?

FWIW, you can pay a much lower fee and the transaction will probably be confirmed... eventually... For example, I donated to a torrenting site with a very low fee and it took ~3 days to confirm.

Thanks, almost exactly what I was looking for. So the tradeoff appears to be that the the quicker I want to settle a transaction, the more expensive it is.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#630

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

Engineers and technical people are cynical generally, but I agree. It comes out especially for crypto. Some of it could be jealousy. Watching “normies” make millions doing nothing more than buying early.

> Engineers and technical people are cynical generally, but I agree. It comes out especially for crypto. Some of it could be jealousy. Watching “normies” make millions doing nothing more than buying early.

Except we aren't normies, a lot of us may have non CS backgrounds, but we have the World's best cryptographers, and some of us with some relevant tech backgrounds, particularly found in the Anarcho-Capitalist/Crypto-Anarchy/Cypherpunk crowds from the early days, also grew up n the internet. I learned how to solder from hacking and modding playstation, gamecube, and Dreamcast consoles and sold ripped copies of those games to fund my first startup in HS in fact. My friends online hacked DirecTV for fun on their time off and introduced me to what zero days were when I was in the 8th grade!

I was browsing newsgroups and IRC since the early 2000s and spoke to software engineers at many mega corps, and even met a few who worked in the auto industry in my early teens at meetups or drifting events.

I honestly think it's because we ushered in a paradigm shift that makes them question if they wasted their time/life entirely and we are incredibly vocal about that, not because we want to brag (most times) but because we want you to apply your Human capital and skill set to this movement as we need so much more infrastructure to make it become what we all think it can become as its still possible to be incredibly rewarded for doing so.

But many, especially here, have these delusions think they were meant to be Musk, Chamath, or Dorsey if they kept pluging away as a lowly foot soldier on a H1 visa at a FAANG: it was just a matter of time until their unicorn idea let them get to that table. It's really just sad to me, but I saw it with my own eyes so many times I cannot deny it. Hell, Chamath has even said in his recent podcast what he did is entirely unobtainable anymore, which is why he works in the spaces he does.

It's really sad, Bitcoiners as a whole are generally collaborative, and super generous people with their time and crypto (we gave so much away!) but all we ever get from the FAANG types is jealousy, scorn and resentfulness; we may be brash in our demeanor and are often very anti-Silicon Valley (even for those of us with roots there) but that is just our culture. A lot of us were channers, too. I heard it several times before I joined and posted on BTF in fact.

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