Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#621

Post by fastball » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

jdeibele wrote: post #616

fastball wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly does a pay-at-the-pump gas station function without internet?

You go inside and pay cash to the clerk who authorizes $20 of gas on pump #5. I'm in Oregon where we (mostly) legally can't pump our own gas. There may be pumps that are like vending machines: they take cards or cash. There are exceptions, like if you're in the rural areas (counties under 40,000 residents). They also changed it for a while during the early part of COVID. I notice that the pumps still run the commerci…

> How exactly does a pay-at-the-pump gas station function without internet?

I realize that there are gas stations where you can't pay at the pump, but that's not the claim I was responding to in the PC.

Regardless, if you are using your credit card to pay for your gas (which I am certain you can do in Oregon gas stations), the gas station is utilizing internet in order to give you gas.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#622

Post by rconti » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

yourapostasy wrote: post #303

rconti wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards are not widely accepted in Germany. Germans generally use cash or EC/Maesto debit cards, and you can't get an EC card if you're not an EU resident with an EU bank account (which can be hard for Americans, and, to a lesser extent, any foreigner, I'm sure). I used to have a Maestro-branded debit card (in the US) when I was younger. I have no idea if it's the same system and/or if they're compatible. I chec…

We need the Google Fi equivalent of credit cards. Even with vaunted "international credit cards", there are still use cases where they do not work, which seem country-specific, and finding information about what is actually going on under the hood has been difficult for this layperson.

With the caveat that I've only travelled in the Western world, credit cards really are almost universally accepted, Germany aside. Obviously, the smaller the merchant, and the smaller the country/town, the less likely.

As an American, a particularly odd experience was at a shop in Peru, where they only accepted MasterCard and not Visa. These days we're so used to them being interchangeable, it had never even crossed my mind. Between my wife and I, we had 5 or 6 Visa debit/credit cards, and 0 MasterCard.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#623

Post by rasz » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

99_00 wrote: post #420

username90 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accelerate faster than a combustion sports car, no expensive engine maintenance etc. And since the only major cost of electric cars is the battery they will go down in price as we get better batteries and very likely get cheaper than combustion cars pretty soon. Electric engines are super simple, only reason combustion cars are even competitive today is that we have invested so much research into building combustion…

There are cheaper and faster combustion sports cars.

There were cheaper and better quality analog cameras up to around 2003. By 2005 DSLR was a gold standard.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#624

Post by fastball » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #558

modeless wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just plug in, no card. The car identifies itself. It needs an internet connection to report the usage so it can be charged to the correct account. Gas stations obviously need a network connection of some kind too for card swipes to work. Otherwise you'd have to fall back to cash or manually writing down card numbers (is that even allowed anymore?) Almost all Superchargers are unmanned so no cash.

EMV (chip/contactless) credit cards are capable of working without an internet connection, including PIN or device-based verification. Transactions get stored/batched on the payment terminal until the connection is available again. EV chargers often still require internet, however, as payment is via app or their own RFID card/dongle. Putting credit card readers directly on the chargers is a relatively recent (and not…

How do you verify there is enough balance in the account, etc?

Pin+chip just verifies that the card is yours, not that the card can actually pay for anything.

For example, you could use a VISA gift card with $0 balance to pay for things if you had a system that was accepting transactions while offline.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#625

Post by rasz » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #501

rasz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unguarded $100 worth of charging cable dangling from every street post? what could possibly go wrong?

The cable is closer to 300-400€. (7 meter 32A Type 2) It locks to the pole when it's charging, and the car can be set up to lock its end until the car is unlocked. Non-issue.

The cable can be cut with $30 Bolt Cutters, and sold to the scrappers for its weight in copper. Multiply by the number of cars charging that night on one street. Faster, cleaner and tons more profitable than cutting catalyst converters from under the cars.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#626

Post by Gibbon1 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #485

Gibbon1 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent 25 years living in San Francisco. What I know is I put about 6000 miles a year on my car. Of which about 4000 was around the city. Assuming a city dweller with a car charged it every 200 miles, that's be once every two and half weeks. That doesn't seem impossible, just merely inconvenient. On the same level of having to wash your clothes at a laundromat. It's thing, if you live in a real city, it's not the Su…

The laundromat analogy is pretty good. Basically you'd plug in your car to a charger, go do your weekly groceries and go grab your car. Two weeks of charge right there. You might not need to charge during next week's grocery run if you don't want to.

A couple of people on my street in SF commuted to the south bay with electric cars. They'd park them on the street at night and charge them at work.

Also thing I know about SF. People that work in SF park their car in the same spot for days at a time. And remembering to move the car is another inconvenience they deal with. When I lived and worked in SF I would drive down town and park. Which I could do because I had a parking sticker. Most people do not have that option. Which says to me, me putting 6000 miles a year on my car probably made me an outlier on the high side. There are people putting much less.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#627

Post by jokethrowaway » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

todd8 wrote: post #550

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

I had to pay a large (too large) an amount to purchase an extra parking space when I bought my condo. I personally didn't need the space all the time, but guests to the condo didn't have to hunt for parking on the street in an area with busy nightlife. I figured that when I sold the condo the parking space would raise the value of the condo, maybe not enough to make up for the cost but enough to be worth having the p…

I've random workers from a restaurant nearby parking in my unused space (in a private enclosing) all the time. And my parking space even require a special card to use.

It would be nice if they offered to pay.

I reported them to the police, but I haven't heard about them fining them and they don't stop using it.

A neighbour used the parking space once and my landlord that was passing by reported her and she got a fine.

What I can't stand about the police here in UK is that it's so inconsistent.

Having a charger I get charged for would be an absolute nightmare.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#628

Post by dzhiurgis » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

Daho0n wrote: post #584

dzhiurgis wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noise too. Wish they taxed cars by decibels too. Charge motorcycles, heavy machinery and sports cars like 100k a year.

>Wish they taxed cars by decibels too Then the couple living down the road from me would have to pay the same for their Tesla as their neighbor would pay for their Ford Mondeo. When they drive past me they are emitting the same amount of nose to the roadside since all I can hear is wind and tire noise. Then you could measure the noise inside the car instead (or it would be a race to the bottom of who will put on the…

Yes we can tax those too.

However wind noise in highway doesn’t change anything. Whereas motorbike can wake entire neighbourhood at 6AM (saw this few times in my life). Accelerating truck, bus or sports car can startle child or adult even taking off from pedestrian crossing.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#629

Post by elihu » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

indeedmug wrote: post #543

elihu wrote: post #457

One side of this that doesn't seem to get looked at much is how many ICE cars are on the roads that could be converted. Doing conversions at high volume would be very labor intensive, but it would give dealerships and mechanics something to do, and it would generate less waste than replacing whole cars. Right now it's kind of on the edge of being practical, mostly because of the batteries. They're expensive and bulky…

Even the cost of conversion kits goes down, you are ignoring the most expensive part and that's labor. You can't install these things easily. You have to take the engine out with all is associated parts and then put all the EV parts with all the wiring associated. Someone had to do this. If you want conversations for everyone and I doubt that it's going to be either cheap or scalable.

Sure, the labor would be a big part of the cost. You have to remove the engine, the gas tank, and exhaust system, and probably the transmission and swap in a motor, route battery cables, install some electronics, probably replace the engine ECU, and so on. Probably a several day project for someone who knows exactly what they're doing and has all the right tools and has done it many times before.

I think that's okay. It employs mechanics, who are going to have less to do as low maintenance EVs replace high maintenance gas cars. It's scalable in the sense that someone just has to make a kit available and if someone wants it in their car they can hire their preferred mechanic to install it.

Considering that we currently have a $7500 federal tax credit for new EVs and some states add a couple thousand more, if that were extended to conversions as well as new vehicles it could cover most of the cost. If batteries get significantly cheaper such a subsidy could cover the whole cost.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#630

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 8:56 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #596

Noos wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people have a couple of kids, and need more groceries that can be done that way. Some times there is this thing called "inclement weather" which means it rains 2-3 days in a row and makes doing this miserable. Or you work a double shift and are too tired to get groceries, or you work 2nd shift and everything is closed on the way back except convenience stores. Or you get sick and can't actually go out to get foo…

I have kids. I know a lot of people that have kids. Again, narrow mindedness. You don't just go to buy STRICTLY what you need today. You buy something like 10% over each time. Within several weeks of shopping you'll have a full fridge, heck, even a full pantry. Then you only need to top up when you go each day. And I'm being generous, you can go every 2-3 days, even. There are comfortable solution, you need two thing…

And the point of most of the US-centric replies to this subthread is that ...drumroll... we usually don't have 1.