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Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#621

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

aisofteng wrote: post #610
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't think the corporate doublespeak is reason to switch to Chrome, but I do think the corporate doublespeak in this announcement is just awful. When you're doing a layoff, just announce the layoff, show compassion to the affected employees, and if you want to announce other changes, do it in a separate announcement. Putting stuff about the fight against systemic racism in the opening paragraph of a layo…

> Sadly, the changes also include a significant reduction in our workforce by approximately 250 people. These are individuals of exceptional professional and personal caliber who have made outstanding contributions to who we are today. To each of them, I extend my heartfelt thanks and deepest regrets that we have come to this point. From TFA.

> and if you want to announce other changes, do it in a separate announcement

From TFC.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#622

Post by [deleted] »

renewiltord wrote: post #387
floatingatoll wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they want is for {product X} to solely focus on their needs {set Y}, disregarding everyone else's needs that conflict. This selfishness is expressed for lots of things, not just Mozilla, but things like Ubuntu and Homebrew too. I wonder what HN startups must think when they read HN comments and so very often see "my needs aren't met, I quit you".

> I wonder what HN startups must think when they read HN comments and so very often see "my needs aren't met, I quit you". I know a couple of guys who posted their stuff here. They don't care about the complainers because the complainers don't have and don't offer to have skin in the game. They did the sensible thing, which is to be polite and respond noncommittally thanking them for the feedback or to ignore them. B…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#623

Post by acheron9383 »

betterunix2 wrote: post #590
Santosh83 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be rapidly downvoted but what strikes me as an outsider (reading most of the comments in this thread) is the collective psyche in the US is viscerally against any entity rising to the top that does not have profit as its sole goal. What they want is for Mozilla to solely focus on Firefox, on the technicalities, and shut up about everything else. And yet no one will actually pay for it as a product. The tragedy…

"the collective psyche in the US is viscerally against any entity rising to the top that does not have profit as its sole goal" It is more like people are willing to dismiss bad behavior when there is a clear profit motive, since it seems obvious that when someone is in it for the money they will ignore other considerations. Take the profit motive out of the picture and people start to imagine other motives or attrib…

Well, people expect a company to not try to ride the high horse down the low road. I don't personally think Mozilla has really done anything bad, I get it, they are a real company, with real employees who work for a living. Sometimes the realities of running a company clash with their PR of being some sort of public good. FWIW, I like Mozilla, and a lot of their values, and the products they put out, but their marketing does leave them open to ridicule in ways that a company who always answers "money" to the "why did you do this?" question is not.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#624

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

staycoolboy wrote: post #595
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't think the corporate doublespeak is reason to switch to Chrome, but I do think the corporate doublespeak in this announcement is just awful. When you're doing a layoff, just announce the layoff, show compassion to the affected employees, and if you want to announce other changes, do it in a separate announcement. Putting stuff about the fight against systemic racism in the opening paragraph of a layo…

> inviting a tidal wave of eye rolls. That depends entirely on how the reader feels about diversity. EDIT: I made a claim that the reader's reaction depends on what the reader is thinking, and six people claimed I was wrong, which means they can read minds. Nice. Critical thinking means removing your emotional bias from analysis.

Honestly, I think the exact opposite of what you're implying. If you truly value diversity, you don't use it as some sort of cover in the first paragraph of your layoff announcement.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#625

Post by Joeri »

gfodor wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

A common refrain, but is anything but obvious. Focusing on the browser could be a losing strategy. I'd argue it probably is. The trajectory is terrible: the tech is being commoditized (WebKit, Chromium) and the market share picture is bleak. The opportunity cost is huge: maintaining a web engine, one which basically just tries to keep up with the others put out by Google et al, takes armies of people that could perha…

The thing is, their only option for making a relevant browser is investing in it maximally because users will ruthlessly pick the best browser. If they cut back on the browser, they may as well just put it out to pasture, because that is where it will go in time. So either mozilla focuses on the browser first and foremost, or they get out of the browser business.

And the thing with mozilla is that the browser is their core asset. All this other stuff they do? It is fluff, of marginal importance. If they’re not doing the browser, they’re just another small software vendor, irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#627

Post by vages »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #547
dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

I certainly don't think the corporate doublespeak is reason to switch to Chrome, but I do think the corporate doublespeak in this announcement is just awful. When you're doing a layoff, just announce the layoff, show compassion to the affected employees, and if you want to announce other changes, do it in a separate announcement. Putting stuff about the fight against systemic racism in the opening paragraph of a layo…

I have to respectfully disagree. It is common for leaders to re-state their entity's reason for being as they bring bad news. See Churchill's speeches during the battle of France, for instance.

I think this opening was well-written and clearly communicated Mozilla's purpose. You can blame it for being populist, but don't hate the player, hate the game.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#628

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

Chirael wrote: post #324
jacquesm wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a losing strategy because this is a rearguard action. There are only losing strategies, nothing will turn Mozilla around to be some kind of powerhouse besides what it already is. And that's fine . It doesn't need to be the next singing, dancing platform with bells and whistles. It's a tool. It should do one thing and do that one thing well. FireFox is not a failing product, it is the only product they have…

I loved Firefox Send and really hope they can find a way to address the malware problem [1]. It was the only large file sharing service I fully trusted both because of the encrypted zero-knowledge aspect of the system and the organization behind it; I used it several times a month personally and told others about it. To me it was a "win" under the Mozilla/FF brand. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/mozilla-suspends-f…

Yah, I really liked it. Have you found any other similar services that have a web ui (other commenters have shared similar CLI-based tools)? I loved using it to share stuff with my less technically-savvy friends and family.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#629

Post by elmarschraml »

Here is how that press release should have read:

First paragraph: Get to the point (layoffs are happening) immediately, and state the concrete reasons why they are necessary.

Second paragraph: Thank the people being laid off, call out some of their good work, and talk about the things you are doing to help them find a new job.

Third paragraph: Mention the steps you are taking to avoid having to have layoffs again. Be as specific as possible. When mentioning "focus", that means focusing on one, possibly two, very specific things.

Last paragraph: Motivation for the future. Renewed commitment to making Firefox better.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#630

Post by criddell »

Hackbraten wrote: post #616
mrweasel wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd grant you that Mozilla is being held to a higher standard, to high perhaps. That's not really my complaint about Mozilla. The thing is, I freaking love Firefox. Developer can't speak highly enough about MDN, and with good reason. Yet, the thing we see as users and donors to Mozilla is Pocket, FirefoxOS, an idiotic VPN and other pointless project. Thunderbird can apparently just roll over and die for all the Mozil…

> Firefox is the leading browser right now. Chrome isn't even close In what sense? Feature set, user experience, security, stability, performance, developer experience? Genuinely curious. I switched from Chrome last year and have yet to find a single aspect in which I’d say Firefox would lead, with the exception of privacy.

As a user it feels like all of the major browsers have been good enough for quite a while now. Is there anything other than bug fixes and performance improvements happening in that space these days?
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