Richard M. Stallman resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#621

Post by CathedralBorrow » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:13 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #422

journalctl wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call “not actively espousing hateful or bigoted views” “self-censorship”. And if people are afraid to be hateful or creepy in public, I’d call that a win. You don’t get to proclaim the advantages of chattel slavery and be magically immune from everyone’s responses, and afterwards you can’t complain about self-censorship when you think twice about writing or saying something abhorrent.

Yeah, people should be afraid to be "creepy" in public. Bring back that good old high school dynamic where nerds knew their place. Next headline: RMS stuffed into gym locker. Right on!

> Yeah, people should be afraid to be "creepy" in public

I agree.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#622

Post by brandmeyer » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #478

nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

> "but he's a genius and does such great work that we should tolerate the bad things he does". I really thought we'd started to move past that over the last few years.

Nobody thinks this of RMS. He's a competent developer who was in the right place at the right time to found a new ideology: The idea that software should work for the user, the only way for software to do so is to empower the user to also be a developer themselves. That's all.

Being competent himself wasn't a sufficient condition for anyone to listen to him, but it was necessary.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#623

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

egdod wrote: post #564

mnm1 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous in a culture that elected and continues to support an accused rapist to its highest office. If the highest office in the nation (and many others) can have such a scumbag without him being forced to resign, how can we expect someone in Stallman's position to be perfect and PC with his speech so idiots don't misunderstand his direct style of speech? Such hypocrisy, such bullshit, this argument is.

> accused rapist That’s the standard for being “canceled” now? An accusation? Anybody can accuse people of things. We have courts and the presumption of innocence for a reason.

Out of curiosity, what is "canceled"? I haven't seen it used before.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#624

Post by kelnos » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

Jedd wrote: post #557

kelnos wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

> We don't have to tolerate people who make women feel unsafe and unwelcome in our (or any) industry. Promoting intolerance of people we disagree with, even if we vigorously disagree with them, is perhaps not the best response.

This isn't about disagreement; it's about creating a hostile environment for women at MIT and continuing to do so for years. I'm not prepared to tolerate things like that.

If we want to talk about disagreement...

He only recently recanted (with quite suspicious timing) his view that pedophilia is fine if the child gives consent. No, I'm not going to tolerate that view. I wouldn't want to work for someone that had that view.

In the email thread under discussion, he wanted to redefine "sexual assault" and "child rape" to something that agrees more with his sense of linguistic purity. No, that's not ok.

At some point, when people keep having disgusting views, and won't change them, you give up on them entirely. It's just not worth the effort anymore.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#625

Post by dangerface » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

The blog[0] that started it is a disgrace, the only value they act on is spite. The movement they claim owner ship should reject any association with them, I do.

> our movement will only be successful if it includes everyone. With these as our values and goals > We call for Stallman to step down

[0] https://sfconservancy.org/news/2019/sep/16/rms-does-not-spea...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#626

Post by ohiovr » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

Well that is news to me. Other than that I offer nothing else.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#627

Post by Kye » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #445

nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

This is ridiculous in a culture that elected and continues to support an accused rapist to its highest office. If the highest office in the nation (and many others) can have such a scumbag without him being forced to resign, how can we expect someone in Stallman's position to be perfect and PC with his speech so idiots don't misunderstand his direct style of speech? Such hypocrisy, such bullshit, this argument is.

This culture didn't elect him. The culture that created the Electoral College did.

This culture voted overwhelmingly for the other option.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#628

Post by kelnos » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #524

kelnos wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

> Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online. No it's not an insult to anyone. It's an attemoted explanation of why some neuro-atypical people behave in atypical fashion.

Are you, or the parent, a mental health professional? If not, then I'd suggest you aren't qualified to tell if he's even autistic at all, or, if he is, that his autism is what's causing the problems here, not terrible beliefs, behaviors, and attitudes. In that light, using autism as an excuse for Stallman's behavior is just an unfounded theory by an armchair psychiatrist with no business making diagnoses.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#629

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

I move that we flag and bury this thread now. It's choke-full of flames and it has the highest level of personally abusive comments I've seen in the last few months on HN. It's getting like reddit in here.

I just don't think we can discuss this issue sensibly, even on HN.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#630

Post by weaksauce » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

lostjohnny wrote: post #593

scoopertrooper wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy has a long history endorsing pedophillia. Is it so hard to not endorse pedophilla? Can't that just be the one thing everybody agrees on?

> The guy has a long history endorsing pedophillia Among the many things one can say about RMS, this is not one of them. This is just slander.

> The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, "prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia" also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally--but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.

https://stallman.org/archives/2003-mar-jun.html

he's saying that it should be legal at the very least.