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We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

resumeskills.us

621–630 of 810 posts

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#621
post #352
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to teach “everyone” to code is like teaching everyone to draw in high school art classes. It gives a lot of people exposure to what it means to code/draw, the fundamental steps of coding/drawing but doesn’t increase the supply of coders/artists in the world to the point where the skilled artists/programmers become commonplace.

What you say is true, but it's also true that the bar is lower than it was 20 years ago and it continues to move that direction, at least when we talk about simple "apps" as opposed to bleeding edge technologies now. For example, "Chart.js" makes it really easy to create beautiful charts in a web app. Because of tools like that it's much easier to learn how to build a feature rich app now than 20 years ago. Still, th…

> Still, the guy who can create "Chart.js" (an artist) should be getting paid a lot more than a guy who can only use it (a craftsmen).

Why? One without the other is pretty pointless. I can accept the roles are different but not that either is particularly harder.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#622
post #455

After moving to California in 2011, I decided I missed the office banter and started looking for a job. I found a listing on a large, tech-based recruiting firm (cybercoders) and the job was perfect for my skills. I applied but heard nothing back. After a week I reached out to the recruiter, and she replied with a curt, "You're not qualified for this role so we're looking elsewhere." I was a bit surprised as the reqs…

Cybercoders is particularly dysfunctional. Avoid at all costs.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Because it creates an information asymmetry. They now know what you (are willing to) work for, but you don't know what they're willing to pay, or what everyone else in the company makes. It does not benefit you to disclose the information, even if you think your number is high . They might assume you are lying, or they might already be anchored at an even higher number - you don't know.

Can't you just tell them not to bother with the interview any further and refrain from wasting everyone's time if they're not prepared to offer what you've asked for?

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#624
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention we get free health care and decent holidays with that. A 7 weeks holiday allowance has more than a monetary allowance.

> Not to mention we get free health care The (many) issues with US health care do not affect upper/middle class professionals. From a "patient perspective", as long as you are employed as a software engineer in SV, health care is not a concern at all (insurance is covered by the employer). If anything, it is superior to anything I experienced in Europe.

Though the costs are invisible to you, our model raises prices and essentially gentrifies care, making it more difficult for those lower on the ladder to afford care (bringing along the associated public health issues) and robbing other priorities (like medical research) of cash.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000X yes. It’s the result of a PR campaign to increase the H1B Visa allotment. Love H1B employees, they are just delicious! Low wages and zero bargaining power otherwise it’s out of the country with you. It’s also funny because this creates a problem where wages have been driven down to a point where skilled workers can barely afford to support a family in tech zones. So because of these depressed wages in software…

I keep hearing this 'H1B low wages'. Here's my startup idea. You create a website with a list of job skills that 'slave wage companies (SWC)' are claiming to need to fill. You collect resumes from unemployed U.S.candidates with these skills and send them to the SWCs. If the candidate gets hired you keep a recruiters fee. If the candidate is rejected your startup lawyers sue the pants of the SWC for violating U.S H1B…

> If the candidate is rejected your startup lawyers sue the pants of the SWC for violating U.S H1B law.

Is this an easily winnable lawsuit? Can't the company just show that the candidate failed their interview process suggesting they lacked the actual job skills required?

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These laws put no restrictions on what candidates can say, absolutely none whatsoever. They just affect the employer side of the conversation. Employers in California (and NYC and a few other places) cannot ask about salary history, but they can ask what salary the candidate wants, and the candidate can decide on their own initiative to share salary history info. If candidates share such info voluntarily and unsolici…

> Notice how that doesn't depend on salary history info at all. Does that get you the same salary as showing off your previous good pay stub? If it does, then we're fine. If it doesn't, then it doesn't matter that it's voluntary, the system still strongly encourages discrimination based on previous pay. Imagine a similar system with a protected class. "You don't have to tell us your age, but if you prove you're under…

Yes, my suggested phrasing above should get you a fair salary without reference to previous good pay stubs, assuming you make inquiries as stated. If you weren't overpaid before, you should get at least a similar outcome, but you would get a better one if previously underpaid as many people in protected classes unfortunately still are.

If you were overpaid, and want to try to keep being overpaid, see below for a scenario that you can mentally adjust from fixing underpayment to preserving overpayment (in which case verification is even more important if the employer decides to bite that bullet).

Underpayment of disadvantaged colleagues is so much more common and so much more long-term impactful than overpayment of anyone involved in this style of negotiation; I care more that the law addresses the former than that it prevents the latter. People have useful indirect ways to signal high pay anyway even if they were forbidden from saying it explicitly, far more than underpaid people.

The prior pay information is illegal for employers to solicit in these jurisdictions, even if they are willing to make it voluntary by accepting no for an answer. The only way the info will make it to a law-abiding California employer is if the candidate decides it's to their advantage to volunteer it, as they probably would if the initial offer is a low-ball. If the candidate doesn't volunteer it unsolicited, the info can't legally come up (and if it somehow does [e.g. turns up in a third party background check] the employer can't use the info during the hiring process).

As for why that needs to be allowed, consider this scenario:

Company: What salary are you looking for?

Candidate: Market rate.

Company: How about $X? We like you and it's the highest we usually offer for this position to a new hire.

Candidate: Hm. While I agree $X is within the market rate range, I currently make $X+10k which is also within that range. Can you at least match that?

Company, after consideration: Hm. Yeah given that we don't want to force you to take a pay cut, we'll make that exception.

Or, even more compelling last two lines:

Candidate: Hm, my current company is already paying me $X, and has been doing so for 3 years now despite my skills growing significantly in that time. Can you recognize that growth with a modest pay raise?

Company, after consideration: Hm, we realize you won't trust our willingness to support you if we keep your compensation stagnant for a fourth year and counting. We can't break our salary band, but we'll at least give you $10k/year extra in restricted stock units [assume a public company].

In such scenarios, verification makes sense to require and allow.

Also note that these jurisdictions generally have explicit bans on paying differentially based on protected attributes like old age or gender, and that these laws about salary history (which are just a tightening of their former greater permissiveness that still prevails elsewhere) don't override those rules.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this statement: First of all it sounds like there was some really dishonest communication and there is no excuse for that. With this one: People who are unaware of their market value

There's nothing dishonest about making someone an offer lower than what you think they could get elsewhere and then accepting it.

There is if the candidate makes their salary a very clear upfront condition of employment and the employer pushes them through a lengthy interview without disclosing zero chance of them being paid that much because the company does not have the money. They are leading a candidate on in bad faith.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention we get free health care The (many) issues with US health care do not affect upper/middle class professionals. From a "patient perspective", as long as you are employed as a software engineer in SV, health care is not a concern at all (insurance is covered by the employer). If anything, it is superior to anything I experienced in Europe.

Except when you really need an efficient health insurrance system, like cancer level efficiency. At least it's what I learnd from following US politics these last 3 years on reddit.

Having a lot of money is really the sole area where US health care actually is the best in the world. Efficiency is somebody else’s problem.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the rule and wish it was easier to put into practice. What I've noticed however, is that a lot of recruiters stonewall you if you don't tell them a number, or at least a range. They even say things like "Well I need to put something into this internal web app." It's super frustrating!

patio11's suggestion for this: > Objection: “This form needs a number.” > What you should think: “You’re lying to me to attempt to get me to compromise my negotiating position.” > What you should say: “Give me git access and I’ll fix it in a jiffy! both people laugh No, seriously, speaking, I’m more concerned at the moment with discovering whether we’re a mutual fit… Oh, it’s physically impossible? Put in $1 then to…

Patio11 has done fantastic writing in this topic that shaped a lot of my own opinions. Worth reading if anybody hasn’t seen it before.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after paying $600,000 per employee, Facebook still makes $600,000 profit per employee. So it is currently at a 50/50 split of the value created between the employee and the company. I would expect, in a skills shortage, that the employee would be able to demand a much greater share, something closer to -- or even temporarily above -- 100%. The absolute number, $60,000 or $600,000 or $6,000,000 doesn't seem relev…

> I would expect, in a skills shortage, that the employee would be able to demand a much greater share, something closer to -- or even temporarily above -- 100%. It would be really interesting to compare salary/profit ratio of the tech industry to recognized labor shortages in other industries.

I think much of what people are trying to say here is that there is no such thing as a labor shortage in any industry (assuming no artificial wage controls). Also, in the USA you often hear about insufficient supply of workers in certain work categories: software engineer, nurse, teacher. Are those the very highest paid work categories? If not, why aren't the highest paid categories said to be suffering from insufficient supply?

You are of course right that the ratio of profit per employee and salary is irrelevant.

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