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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

europa.eu

621–630 of 975 posts

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#621
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft had to have a browser choice screen the first time you tried to use IE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu And if that actually restores competition then you don't need a five billion dollar fine.

Both punitive and compensatory/reparation measures habevtgeir place.

It's a matter of proportionality. A punishment that is the economic equivalent of the destruction of a small city is proportional to something on the order of mass murder, not the prominence of certain information on a company's web page.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, what Google is learning here is that you should never license your OS/sell to other manufacturers and never make it open-source and just go the Apple route instead, create the device yourself and make the OS completely proprietary and closed.

Which would allow google to gain dominance in the mobile market... NOT. Google/Android won because it was very open and flexible, but the moment they started to dominate they started to push their agenda on OEMs users…

Okay, now I am starting to see the argument against Google. Essentially, that they captured a lot of the market with "free" but are increasingly using the terms that come alongside this "free" to bully other manufacturers now that they're locked in with "free Android!".

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#623
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the biggest thing in Chrome's favor was being an installer pack-in. People still get sometimes Chrome installed on them if they go download Adobe Reader without unchecking the box. (McAfee Security Scan Plus is Adobe's other paid pack-in, you might see that instead, depending on your location.) People seem to vastly forget that a large part of Chrome's dominance of the ordinary user is the fact that install…

I don't see how partnering with a few other software companies to distribute software via installers is a bad thing or a sign of monopolistic practices (aka limiting competition and harming customers by forcing them to use a product they wouldn't otherwise)... It's a bit shady to make it 'automatically the default browser'. But that is a problem with the OS. An installer shouldn't be able to make that choice for the…

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#624
post #581

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

Google will start charging phone manufacturers to use Android on their devices. And they'll pass that on to consumers. The EU will get their check.

Then maybe consumers will start buying lower priced phones with a different OS.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#625

So, according to the EU, it is illegal to open source OS components (thus allowing anyone to use it without further input from Google as long as the license is followed), but then close source other components and the services that drive them, although they are given out for free, but require specific licensing in the contract to distribute said free closed source components and services on their OEM devices, of whic…

Dude you literally did not understand a single word of the ruling.

I did. They tried to make an argument that Google forbids Android OEMs from shipping Google Play on Android without also shipping Google Search, and they can only opt in all of their devices, not only specific ones.

In the form I stated, this is true, to get Play you must ship Google Search, and must do so on all of your devices.

What is not true, but implied by the EU ruling is that, a) Android (as defined as purely AOSP) is incomplete and unusable without Google apps, b) that other app stores do not exist for Android, c) that other search engines somehow magically don't work on Android.

None of those are true. I find it unfortunate that Android does not have higher profile alternative options, but no one else seems to want to put as much effort into their products as much as Google has.

Google's actions simply do not meet any reasonable definition of being a monopoly. Google's only action is requiring the entire Google Apps suite shipped on a device as an all-or-none license, it does not require the end user to use them, it does not prohibit the end user from installing others or disabling built in apps, it does not require signing into a Google account to use the device, it does not prevent APK sideloading.

And, until recently, Google was not even a phone OEM (and arguably still isn't, as they do not build their Pixels, HTC and LG do), and Pixels are not nearly as popular as Samsung Galaxy S series (which are famous for "ruining" the Android experience by using tons of custom Samsung apps), and LG G and V series, and Motorola phones dominating the mid-tier segment, and China and India being largely Xiamoi, Huawei, and BBK (Oppo, OnePlus, and Vivo).

Worldwide, Samsung and BBK are the #1 and #2 phone manufacturers, and they merely use Android as their OS. At what point did the EU have the authority to say Google had a monopoly when they do not sell Android phones in any reasonable capacity.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#626
post #598

The fact that Google allows other OEMs to install their OS, as opposed to Apple which does not, is being used against them. If the lesson that Google learns is that it will kill it's OEM program then consumers will be worse off.

Not quite. The problem is that Google offered Android Open Source for free but then didn't allow its parrtners to use it freely. If they never open sourced Android they wouldn't have this problem.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why the same wouldn't apply to Apple for iOS? Microsoft got into trouble because they forced companies like Dell and HP to make their products feature Internet Explorer. Google is getting into trouble now because they're forcing companies like Samsung and LG to make their products feature Chrome. Apple is not getting into trouble now because Apple is not forcing Apple to make their products feature Safari. Obviousl…

>There is no OEM here being bullied. Right, only the end users are harmed, as it should be.

A red herring. Every product on the market—from toasters to lawnmowers—contain numerous choices made by the product manufacturer and not by the end user.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#628
post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Chrome. Chrome was the biggest shocker to many @ Goog. Even as a Noogler, people often sit down in cafeteria and talked about how Chrome got traction and so popular only because it got a main spot on Google's homepage; something noone, no company or individual advertiser can ever bid for. If that's not Google's "Microsoft Internet Explorer anti-trust" moment, then nothing is.

You're missing the massive point that it was also happened to be far superior to Firefox and IE when it came out... And it held the #1 spot (by far) for nearly a decade while Firefox fumbled around and IE remained IE. It's crazy to say a product only succeeded because Google pushed it hard. Google (and Microsoft, Yahoo, etc) has a LONG list of failed products they pushed hard (Wave, Google Plus, etc). Did it play a r…

The GP didn't make the claim that the "product only succeeded because Google pushed it hard". All they said was that Google used their search monopoly to give it a big advantage.

Chrome's quality was a necessary, but probably not sufficient condition for it to gain the market traction that it did.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#629
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that Samsung has their own app store, right? By your explanation that wouldn't be possible because they also ship the Google Play store. But it is. Samsung replace many other apps too. What Google requires is that their services are available, not that others aren't. The different stories people are telling here about why Google is "abusive" don't correlate with the realities of how Android licensing actuall…

Samsung phones are very often dinged in reviews because they ship a confusing mix of Samsung apps that duplicate the functionality of Google apps. I wouldn't be very surprised at all if Samsung would prefer to just ship their Calendar/whatever app, or even entire phones that only contain their apps/services, but they can't make those choices. Regarding the 75%, please bear in mind that that is across the total market…

So what you saying "one example - if you want to use Google services on one Android phone, you can't make a second Android phone that uses your own services" is wrong then?

Does anyone know what the contracts contain?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fire OS and my personal phone which is running a Google-free version of LineageOS would like to have a word. Hilariously, you just made the parent's point for them - you yourself said you aren't running Android but Fire OS or LineageOS. Android , the product, comes with Chrome, Google Search, and the Google Play Store. If you want Android, you have to take all of Android. If you want to run something else, go for i…

This is just factually wrong. Android is a separate software project that is developed separately from Google Play Services. The Android OS works perfectly without those installed. There's no "Chrome, Google Search, and the Google Play Store" in the Android repository. Especially since Android is open source, and most of the latter APKs are not. I suggest to actually have a look at the a android project before making…

Android the project is open source and lacks those apps, but Android the consumer branded product without those apps is not very appealing to customers.
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