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Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

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Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#621

Post by zimpenfish »

pducks32 wrote: post #563
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #555

Google really blew it. Just look at this conversation, normally happy and polite HN is barely restraining itself only because of fear of being hell banned and this is a tiny watered down version of the outrage they have unleashed nation wide. Had they just (as they should ethically have done) privately let the guy know "hey uh, independent of whether we agree with you, can you please cool it because this is USA, Bay…

I agree. These topics turn all of us (it’s one thing we all have un common) into savages. Obviosuly no one shoukd feel discriminated against at work or feel harassed, and yes everyone shoukd have the right to speak about their opinions in a non-violent or threatening way, but the only way this is getting any better people is if we relax and speak not to a whole community but to one person like you are suggesting. You…

> yes everyone shoukd have the right to speak about their opinions in a non-violent or threatening way

Why? And where do you draw the line of what's non-violent or non-threatening? Because to you that line is, say, X=96 whilst the person sat next to you has it at X=45. Other desk over, Bill, with PTSD, has it at X=12. Where do -you- put the line?

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#623

Post by takluyver »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #399
devrandomguy wrote: post #219

As a white man, I have concerns that my ethnic / gender group is being persecuted. How should I raise these issues for discussion, in a professional environment?

My coworker is a 24-year old white male who was very concerned he wasn't going to get a promotion simply because he was a white male. To be honest, I thought there was a good chance that he wasn't going to either. I'm so glad I'm not a young kid growing up in this age, and that I'm financially secure, and looking to retire in the next 10 years. (He did get the promotion btw, which he definitely deserved.)

So... he did get a promotion, there's no evidence of discrimination, but he was very concerned about it until he got the promotion? The horrors we young white men in tech have to face!

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#624

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #570
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #555

Google really blew it. Just look at this conversation, normally happy and polite HN is barely restraining itself only because of fear of being hell banned and this is a tiny watered down version of the outrage they have unleashed nation wide. Had they just (as they should ethically have done) privately let the guy know "hey uh, independent of whether we agree with you, can you please cool it because this is USA, Bay…

I can't imagine the rage this has unleashed within google. Google will be fundamentally fractured internally because of this one decision.

What rage? Google is now showing in cold blood how the opposition is silenced. There will be no rage, everyone will be politely quiet out of fear.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#625

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

puranjay wrote: post #574
jorgemf wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias, then the lack of that program means those women wouldn't have gotten those jobs. This is a double sword thing. With the program you might hire more qualified women, but also more less qualified women and you might prevent of hiring more qualified men. Because you have to hire wom…

So in my country, we have our own version of affirmative action called caste-based reservations. Basically, if you belong to a certain caste, there are seats reserved for you in every government institution (schools, universities) and public sector jobs. One of the smartest people I know belongs to one of these castes. She is brilliant at her job but constantly worries whether she got in because of her brains or beca…

The problem here is that even a discussion about this topic is dangerous. That's unbelievable!

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#626

Post by monochromatic »

fatbird wrote: post #355
jorgemf wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias, then the lack of that program means those women wouldn't have gotten those jobs. This is a double sword thing. With the program you might hire more qualified women, but also more less qualified women and you might prevent of hiring more qualified men. Because you have to hire wom…

If you were a woman, you might think that being hired under a diversity initiative is okay, given that the alternative is not to get the opportunity at all due to systemic discrimination in hiring.

>systematic discrimination in hiring

That's a funny term for merit-based.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#628

Post by randyrand »

halostatue wrote: post #207

https://xkcd.com/1357/

Its simple. Google did not violate free speech in terms of law. But freedom of speech is much more than just a law, its also a social responsibility that we can choose to care about or not.

Personally I think americans should choose to defend freedom of speech, even if they aren't legally required to.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#629

Post by sjeohp »

puranjay wrote: post #567
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #555

Google really blew it. Just look at this conversation, normally happy and polite HN is barely restraining itself only because of fear of being hell banned and this is a tiny watered down version of the outrage they have unleashed nation wide. Had they just (as they should ethically have done) privately let the guy know "hey uh, independent of whether we agree with you, can you please cool it because this is USA, Bay…

They did screw up. But this guy had to be fired. Not because they had to make an example out of him, but because by publicly sharing his biases, he's ensured that a large part of Google wouldn't want to work with him. It's a team sport after all.

I only skimmed it but wasn't he just questioning the policy of positive discrimination?

Or is there something else? Because that's a pretty mild question to get so upset about.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#630

Post by bayonetz »

postnihilism wrote: post #275

This feels like the blue and black (white and gold) dress. It boggles my mind that people don't see the fundamental and toxic misogyny in this 'manifesto'. Please have a woman you care about in your life, preferably one in tech, read this and then ask their opinion of the piece. The "treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group" sentiment of the author is fine except that we have hundreds of…

Clearly you strongly reject the writings overall. Curious if you see any merit or truth to any of the sub sections or smaller kernels of ideas found within? Is there any version of this kind of thing you would encourage and engage with or is it just too sensitive/triggering of a subject to really be tackled in this style?

Several commenters have chalked the author up to basically being a privileged incumbent waking up to the existential crisis of watching one's privilege being slowly taken from them and trying to figure out a way to stem the tide. Do you see it as something similar and therefore it doesn't really make sense to engage or lend it any legitimacy?

It seems a lot behind the opposition to this guy is based on people's assumptions about his motivations. OP or anyone else willing to weigh in would be appreciated.

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