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US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

cnn.com

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Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#611

Corruption means something legitimate is happening that can be corrupted. Maduro was president of a sovereign country. A bunch of kidnappers and murderers invaded the building he was in in Caracas, murdered everyone in the room, then kidnapped him and his wife. What's the "mission"? To pop up in some room and slaughter everyone in it, then kidnap his wife and him? In order to help steal the resources, billions of dol…

> Maduro was president of a sovereign country.

Since 2013, Venezuela has been suffering a socioeconomic crisis under Maduro. He stole the last two elections and remained in power even though he had not legitimately won.

Numerous international bodies and human rights organizations have found that Nicolás Maduro and his government committed extensive human rights violations. These violations have been ongoing since at least 2014 as part of a systematic plan to repress dissent. State security forces and allied armed groups (colectivos) have been implicated in thousands of unlawful or politically motivated killings and arbitrary arrests of protesters, opposition leaders, and perceived critics.

Immediately after the latest presidential election, at least 24 people died as a result of the government’s repression of protests against the appointment of Nicolás Maduro. Most of these killings could amount to extrajudicial executions. Two of the victims were children.

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#612

Corruption means something legitimate is happening that can be corrupted. Maduro was president of a sovereign country. A bunch of kidnappers and murderers invaded the building he was in in Caracas, murdered everyone in the room, then kidnapped him and his wife. What's the "mission"? To pop up in some room and slaughter everyone in it, then kidnap his wife and him? In order to help steal the resources, billions of dol…

> Maduro was president of a sovereign country. It's funny how we accept the importance given to that statement. when he's just some dude who took control of a country and gave himself that title. As if the social construction means anything in this situation.

How much a particular head of state fits into the modern, western conception of liberalism and democracy should have no bearing on the matter; Kidnapping that head of state and putting him on trial in a different country for crimes he is, at best, peripherally involved in is untenable. Especially when the very obvious motivation is self-enrichment rather than bringing any of that liberal democracy to the populace.

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#613

Corruption means something legitimate is happening that can be corrupted. Maduro was president of a sovereign country. A bunch of kidnappers and murderers invaded the building he was in in Caracas, murdered everyone in the room, then kidnapped him and his wife. What's the "mission"? To pop up in some room and slaughter everyone in it, then kidnap his wife and him? In order to help steal the resources, billions of dol…

> Maduro was president of a sovereign country. Since 2013, Venezuela has been suffering a socioeconomic crisis under Maduro. He stole the last two elections and remained in power even though he had not legitimately won. Numerous international bodies and human rights organizations have found that Nicolás Maduro and his government committed extensive human rights violations. These violations have been ongoing since at…

While I understand your sentiment, it doesn't justify what happened.

Think back to January 6 - Imagine if every foreign government assumed it was stolen and decided they should take matters into their own hands. Would it help, or hurt America?

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nabbing the little guy Politics aside, he isn't a "little guy". He apparently holds the rank of master sergeant. That's a senior battalion-level role and somewhat political. This isn't some random E-4 getting dragged.

They fired 4-star generals on a whim. The military is expected to be as loyal as the rest.

Some of those generals were fired because they were women or minorities. Others because they spoke ill of Trump (meaning that they showed "insufficient loyalty").

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#615
post #607

Corruption means something legitimate is happening that can be corrupted. Maduro was president of a sovereign country. A bunch of kidnappers and murderers invaded the building he was in in Caracas, murdered everyone in the room, then kidnapped him and his wife. What's the "mission"? To pop up in some room and slaughter everyone in it, then kidnap his wife and him? In order to help steal the resources, billions of dol…

He was the illegitimate president, he stole the last elections. Plenty of evidence of it. Add to that all the human rights crimes they committed (national guard death squads who killed in the thousands on the poorest areas of the country just to name one). This was investigated by the UN, led by Michelle Bachelet (former president of Chile).

But we did not depose his regime, we just stole him. Not like the US could reliably depose a foreign regime anyway, but this shouldn't be accepted as an excuse.

He indeed was an illegitimate ruler, but that is completely unrelated to what we did.

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this was my first thought as well. He essentially leaked classified mission info for the purpose of scoring some cash on it. Insider trading in congress is a big problem too, but there are some real differences here.

Such as that Congress can legally do insider trading since they won’t pass a law outlawing it.

They literally did pass a law outlawing it in 2012. Enforcement has been very poor, though.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOCK_Act

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maduro was president of a sovereign country. It's funny how we accept the importance given to that statement. when he's just some dude who took control of a country and gave himself that title. As if the social construction means anything in this situation.

My read on the GP comment was that it's intentionally juxtaposing the weight and importance normally given to being president alongside the anarchy that goes along with kidnapping and murder to point out the irony. If you want to believe in things like sovereignty and government, you can't simultaneously say that these governments can kidnap, invade, and murder just because they can. It undermines the very legitimacy…

I had the same interpretation - Maduro was a bad guy, but when the approach taken is akin to the "Wild West," its hard to claim moral superiority - it devolves to different factions of goons with guns stealing from each other and murdering with impunity, "might makes right."

This stands in contrast to the ideals of a society based on laws and rules, where corruption is a notable exception.

We stand on the precipice of abandoning what the world worked so hard for decades to build...

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#618
post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was the illegitimate president, he stole the last elections. Plenty of evidence of it. Add to that all the human rights crimes they committed (national guard death squads who killed in the thousands on the poorest areas of the country just to name one). This was investigated by the UN, led by Michelle Bachelet (former president of Chile).

But we did not depose his regime, we just stole him. Not like the US could reliably depose a foreign regime anyway, but this shouldn't be accepted as an excuse. He indeed was an illegitimate ruler, but that is completely unrelated to what we did.

I’m not debating that. But as Venezuelan I’d like to put that in context. Because it’s important as well. For us even if you think it’s weird it is a glimmer of hope. A bit of justice even if the regime is still in power.

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#619
post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because, frankly, I don't think the average, or even marginal Venezuelan would agree with you at all, as, they have actually had to deal with this dictator. why do you think that? when was the last time you were in venezuela? first you tell someone to get off the internet for a bit and touch grass, then you gesture vaguely at what you think... which came from where exactly? different parts of the internet? cable ne…

Immense majority of the country wanted him out. This is not even an argument at this point. You could argue Chavez was very popular for the most part, but Maduro? Even the communist party of Venezuela wanted him out.

an immense majority wanted him kidnapped by america? either you've inadvertantly shifted the goalpost or i'll need something to back that up, because i find that hard to believe.

Re: US special forces soldier arrested after allegedly winning $400k on Maduro raid

#620
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does that mean what the US did was acceptable? The longer I am alive the more I realize that power is all that matters, and that rules are nice but only for the peons. "Acceptable" in this case means pretty much nothing and is a word that is philosophic in its meaning. You can yell into the clouds that something is unacceptable or unfair and it may be true in some ethical/moral sense, but it matters none. Power wil…

I am not a fan of "well what can ya do?" That's not how we got the 40 hour work week or civil rights legislation. That's not how women got the right to vote. You have to fight and fight and fight for a better world. I mean that.

It's literally how you got those things. Without leverage to get them, they would have just been complaints. You ask what you can do, and then you do it.
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