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Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

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Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#611

Post by KylerAce »

ryandrake wrote: post #288
seattle_spring wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never forget this spot on NPR where they interviewed a machine learning engineer working on AI videos. The engineer was purely focused on how cool the technology is, how real it looks, etc. The interviewer asked, "aren't you worried about this getting into the hands of the wrong people, and creating deepfakes for extortion and things like that?" The engineer paused for a few seconds, and then said, "gosh I never…

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in university, we used to have at least one engineering ethics class in undergrad. Have they stopped those? It sure seems like it, given how many engineers are out there who only seem to care about how technically cool and interesting their projects are.

Took one in my undergrad circa 25

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#612

Post by alterom »

satvikpendem wrote: post #605
alterom wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Equating eating meat with martyrdom in the year 2026 is, in fact, the same cognitive dissonance you personally deny You completely missed the point. In the context of picking battles, martyrdom is (self) sacrifice for the sake of sacrifice, with no direct gain for the cause. Abstaining from meat, to me , will take away one of the not-so-many joys I have in my life, without possibly making a meaningful impact on unet…

Aren't vegetables cheaper than meat? I'd assume poor people also like the taste of meat, as was evolutionarily advantaged, not that it's the cheapest.

>Aren't vegetables cheaper than meat?

Do you even do any grocery shopping where you live?

Not long ago, I could get chicken for $0.99/pound, same as the cheapest tomatoes, whereas quality tomatoes sold for $2.99/pound.

Now the prices for meat are up, but chicken still costs $1.99/pound[1], while decent tomatoes are $3.99/pound[2].

Even if you are thrifty and find cheaper tomatoes, they are incomparable to chicken in nutritional value.

You know the expression "chicken soup for the soul"? There's a reason it's not "tomato soup for the soul" (as much as I love gazpacho).

> I'd assume poor people also like the taste of meat

Try eating on a budget instead of assuming what them "poor people" like.

[1] https://www.safeway.com/shop/product-details.960014952.html?...

[2] https://www.safeway.com/shop/product-details.184570092.html

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#613

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

stasomatic wrote: post #211
bko wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think vegans should consider eating cows. If you care about sentient life and abuse, think about how much meat one cow produces. Killing a single cow can feed you for well over a year.

I’m gonna pull a Rogan and mention how many other sentient beings are massacred while plowing a field. Rodents, insects, snakes, birds, etc. Is that a myth? What is the answer to feed everyone during these budget constrained times? It can’t be tofu, can it? There are just too many of us. In the meantime, the US is overrun by dear and boars, and I’ve been learning archery.

> What is the answer to feed everyone during these budget constrained times?

It's much more efficient to use land to grow food crops for people to eat directly than it is to grow food for livestock and then have people eating the livestock.

It's one of the reasons that I've been pescetarian for a few decades - it's unsustainable for everyone to eat substantial amounts of meat and there's a lot of deforestation just to sate people's desire for burgers.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#615

Post by daemin »

alterom wrote: post #503
fwipsy wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically this boils down to "I don't feel responsible for the meat I eat being factory farmed." Not that I'm in any position to criticize; I'm in the cognitive dissonance camp. Have you considered consuming "ethical" animal products (e.g. free range eggs or whatever?) That doesn't seem like martyrdom; compared to what you want (government mandated livestock welfare) it only costs you marginally more (due to missing…

To the extent that I can, I do try to pick ethical products (like the aforementioned free-range eggs). It's not an all-or-nothing thing indeed; there's a huge spectrum between veganism and not at all thinking (or caring) about where the animal products come from. But yes, I, as a consumer, am not responsible for what is already heavily regulated in favor of factory farmers. Heard of the ag gag laws? You can't vegan t…

All markets have rules, the "free" in "free market" is just marketing.

(Not disagreeing with you, just mentioning it because your statement inside made me think of it)

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#616

Post by dannersy »

asdfman123 wrote: post #259

I'm sure this is especially true of Palantir employees, but I feel like everyone in big tech is increasingly wrestling with this. (Don't ask me how I know.)

I am paid far less than what I'm worth to work at a company that is as close to ethically neutral as I could find. The next step would be nonprofits, but there aren't many and a lot of times they can't justify my pay, understandably.

Good luck convincing people to not just take the money.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#617

Post by smackeyacky »

computably wrote: post #610
BobbyTables2 wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the same camp. On the other extreme, I find it darkly funny that eating plants is supposed to be okay… Aren’t they alive too? What if they were conscious? If they aren’t but still a lifeform, that makes it perfectly okay? No answers, just makes me wonder at times if common ethics is all it’s cracked up be. Is eating plants not required for sustenance or nutrition really justifiable? (Chocolate, sugar, spices,…

> What if they were conscious? Well, they're not. > If they aren’t but still a lifeform, that makes it perfectly okay? According to Jains: No. Violence against plants, insects, and possibly even certain microorganisms is considered unethical. IMO as an irreligious person: Yes. Life is just a particular form of self-sustaining and self-propagating system. Those properties are of little to no moral value.

Are you sure? What about a stand of trees whose consciousness might just run extremely slowly compared to ours?

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#618

Post by computably »

DangitBobby wrote: post #576
tdb7893 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that people will be able to justify anything that is "normal". I went vegan after learning too much of how the literal sausage is made and the amount of people who have unprompted (people are weird about it so I try to avoid talking about being vegan except for mentioning it quickly while declining food) said something along the lines of "factory farming is awful but I just love bacon" and laugh is l…

I agree. It's easier to change your morals than your behavior, or contort your thinking around your own behavior until you can imagine it fits into the shape that you've decided your morals are, reality notwithstanding. I think that explains a lot of it, for unabashed meat-eaters. The other thing I see is casting every human as sacred and every non-human living thing as without value, or, at least less value than a s…

First off, I believe veganism is, probably, morally correct.

However, I lead a morally imperfect lifestyle. I get around by driving or being driven in a car, even when it would only be moderately less convenient to walk or bike or take transit. A few dollars could feed children in poverty for weeks, and I spend on lot more than "a few" dollars on luxuries like travel. By my measure, knowingly choosing not to prevent human suffering on such a scale is massively worse than eating meat, but at the end of the day, I don't consider myself or others in my position to be monsters.

> The other thing I see is casting every human as sacred and every non-human living thing as without value, or, at least less value than a single meal.

While I believe non-human animals generally have greater moral value than a single meal - the most widely consumed animals are clearly capable of suffering and IMO intelligent enough for most to instinctively empathize with - I don't think it's particularly strange for humans to view humans as sacred.

Many if not most people view morality as rooted in the golden rule, and non-human animals are incapable of making moral considerations the way humans are.

Even just considering gut feelings - let's say we presented a trolley problem, on one side one's close friends and family members, on the other side some number of chickens. I would be very surprised at genuine responses opting to save the chickens. Personally, I would sacrifice literally any number of chickens.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#619

Post by sofixa »

spwa4 wrote: post #301
reactordev wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the administration’s love of Axis of Allies, or is it allies of axis? They don’t know, they got distracted by the mustaches and the desire to conquer the world.

You do realize that the Axis (Nazi Germany, Japan) were attacking everyone with the explicitly stated goal of conquering the world (and subjecting it to the holocaust, we might add), and US stopped them, conquered Europe, North Africa, half the Pacific, and nothing has been able to stop the US military since. And the US ... retreated. We might add, the Soviets, the other axis, did not retreat. China did not retreat.…

> and US stopped them

The Allies stopped them. The US was one of the major contributors, but they were far from alone. The Soviets, Britain, Canada, India, Poland, France, Netherlands, Kenya, etc etc all contributed to various extents. The Indian army was one of the biggest by number of men. The Poles and French were crucial in setting the ground work for the British decrypting Enigma, alongside their purely military contributions.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#620

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

RickJWagner wrote: post #381
bastawhiz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are U.S. defense contractors at an U.S. defense company. We should stop using the word "defense". They're war contractors at a war company. The Department of Defense is the Department of War. They changed the name and then immediately started taking military action against other countries. We're in a war in Iran for reasons that nobody can quite articulate, but it certainly has nothing to do with "defending" t…

[flagged]

It doesn't seem fair to require people to speak out publicly about every random, crazy things communicated by Trump and his regime. In my view, it gives legitimacy to his ramblings and certainly feeds into his narcissism to have people react.

It seems more reasonable and practical to speak out against his war once action has actually been taken.

(As a UK citizen, I don't even understand why Trump is being allowed to unilaterally start wars without Congress agreeing)

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