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Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

nytimes.com

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Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#611

Post by appreciatorBus »

wasabi991011 wrote: post #78
xvxvx wrote: post #4

I wonder if anyone has measured the speed in which reality is codified into law or regulation. Women have been fighting against males in female sports for many, many years. Why did it take so long for something so obvious to be acted upon?

> Why did it take so long for something so obvious to be acted upon? A few reasons: 1. Sex is not as straightforward as most people think, and what to do with intersex people is not clear. 2. Trans athletes are underrepresented at pretty much all levels of sport, and aren't actually winning that much, making it not actually an urgent problem. 3. The philosophical underpinnings that advantages due to differences in bo…

Being double jointed is something you are born with.

Being male is something you are born with.

Being male and competing against females is something you choose to do.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#612

Post by FartinMowler »

pmontra wrote: post #523
grogg wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me like the obvious answer is to categorize these events by weight division rather than gender, but this will never be considered because the hysteria is the point.

Fighting sports are divided by weight (boxing, judo, etc) but no woman would even be close to winning in the same weight category of men, so we will never see a woman in those sports at the Olympics or anywhere it matters. And who would pick a woman to play in a team of volleyball, basketball, soccer? I think that historically the only sport in which men and women are absolutely equal is shooting. Maybe curling but i…

Luge too :)

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#613

Post by testbjjl »

callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

Honest question, you say you compete for fun, but what about the folks you beat who are competing for the sake of competition, which is a little different than fun? I am generally open minded at least in comparison to folks I encounter but I can’t square this one in my head. I am just one person with a single opinion but would like to better understand where I am wrong on this topic.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#614

Post by throwawaytea »

thrance wrote: post #581
throwawaytea wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"I can't believe you won't embrace our simplistic bigoted narrative with zero proof".

The world records and overall sport results by male/female are the proof.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#615

Post by testbjjl »

dangus wrote: post #591
qingcharles wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the rare problems where there exists no good solution to the issue. Even without taking transfem athletes into consideration, there still remains a problem for women's sports in that sex (not gender) is not fully black and white, male and female, and some high-performing female athletes show signs of intersex, which has caused this entire hysteria about checking for penises. How do you ever come up wit…

It seems like we are creatively bankrupt if we can’t think of any solution. I think many of us could think of a good solution in literally seconds. And there’s a really good argument that a solution isn’t actually needed. Does the NBA need a solution for Steph Curry being the best 3 point shooter of all time and dominating his competition? Did the NFL need a solution for Tom Brady winning the Super Bowl 30% of the se…

Tom and his team were cheating and penalized accordingly but likely not enough, but more than the Astros.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#616

Post by frumplestlatz »

allreduce wrote: post #609
frumplestlatz wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re claiming female sports categories were not biologically rooted classifications?

I'm claiming that there were always women with outlier biology which is not at all easy to classify and not obvious at a glance. People caring about this issue in sports now and changing the objective admission criteria to exclude them is a political phenomenon more than anything else.

The categories were created at a time when “sex” and “gender” were universally considered synonymous, but they were created for the purpose of sex segregation — were they not?

This issue genuinely confuses me — and I don’t seem alone in that. Re-defining words does not redefine categories or change the underlying motivation for creating categories in the first place.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#617

Post by whattheheckheck »

testbjjl wrote: post #613
callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

Honest question, you say you compete for fun, but what about the folks you beat who are competing for the sake of competition, which is a little different than fun? I am generally open minded at least in comparison to folks I encounter but I can’t square this one in my head. I am just one person with a single opinion but would like to better understand where I am wrong on this topic.

Honest question, you say you're generally open minded in comparison with people you encounter but have you considered you're generally not?

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#618

Post by ItsHarper »

testbjjl wrote: post #613
callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

Honest question, you say you compete for fun, but what about the folks you beat who are competing for the sake of competition, which is a little different than fun? I am generally open minded at least in comparison to folks I encounter but I can’t square this one in my head. I am just one person with a single opinion but would like to better understand where I am wrong on this topic.

I'm not an athlete, but here's my understanding.

Being on feminine hormones pretty much removes any advantage if you've been on them for a while. There are typically rules about that for (at least) high level competitions. You can't just walk in and state your gender for that kind of thing.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#619

Post by appreciatorBus »

Ralfp wrote: post #365
appreciatorBus wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Have you considered that due to their education and research those people may know more on the subject than you do? Regret rates for transition remain notoriously low (within 2%) with main reasons for regret stated to be transitioning too late or environmental lack of acceptance or support. Besides, despite some orgs claiming there is a "transgender trend", we are just not seeing this in the data.

> despite some orgs claiming there is a "transgender trend", we are just not seeing this in the data.'

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria is a well documented phenomenon.

https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30765-0/abst...

https://statsforgender.org/since-the-turn-of-the-millennium-...

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#620

Post by Yizahi »

UncleMeat wrote: post #368
cm2187 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already exists, it's what people refer to as "male olympics". As far as I know, females aren't banned from competing. It is just that they don't stand a chance in most disciplines. The whole point of female olympics is to keep males out.

That’s not true. Men’s gymnastics and women’s gymnastics are totally different sets of events and men would get trounced in a women’s event.

Confidently incorrect. As an example - a banned Thomas salto had been developed and performed by a male gymnast first, and afterwards women starting trying to do it too. This is an anecdote example, but it shows that gymnastics is not some women dominated sport. As another example - four out of four named jumps in the figure skating are all named by male athletes who performed them first.
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