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The MacBook Neo

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Re: The MacBook Neo

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looked up more info on this laptop, my cursory thoughts: plastic chassis: gross. keyboard with a numberpad: yuck no inverted-T for arrow keys: yuck limited size trackpad, not to mention a PC trackpad: yuck display looks good and is matte: nice fans: gross usb-c (charging) port is not the first port in the array: yuck supplied charger brick: yuck, why not something a bit more modern But at least it seems to have compa…

> plastic chassis: gross. I don't care, it holds, it is not slippery (a huge problem with my current phone with metal body). What exactly is better with metal? > keyboard with a numberpad: yuck I would prefer one without, but that's just a matter of preference here. The layout is good. In fact, it's the keyboard that mostly makes me feel good whenever I use this laptop. > inverted-T for arrow keys: yuck In theory I a…

Apple’s power adapters take up one slot.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#612
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thats just this year's model.

It's last year's. I read a few weeks ago that they ditched the "Pro Premium" madness naming scheme and they're back to just XPS .

They haven't retired or replaced most of the models under the old naming scheme, and in many cases they're still manufacturing those models.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#613
post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think It makes sense for iPad line up to be this way. Very clear feature segmentation that make sense. Most is directly result of underlying hardware. For consumer it's also very easy: - decide on size - go from your budget - if still too many SKUs go by features What features? Thunderbolt, Screen, Apple Pencil, Face ID Alternatively if you know what features you want, start with that. If you're struggling to choos…

Yeah, I don't think this lineup is particular crazy: - 8.3", one tier (mini) - 11", three tiers (iPad, Air, Pro) - 13", two tiers (Air, Pro) Could you spend the same amount of money on a regular 11" iPad with a lot of storage, or an iPad Air with less storage? Sure. Some people want lots of storage. Other people don't care but want a wide gamut screen, faster processor, and better pen capabilities. It's nothing like…

Also it’s just one adjective per device. Compare that to the dell pro max premium

Re: The MacBook Neo

#614
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is giving me choice paralysis, last week I made a mental graph of the ones I wanted and went over all node pairs choose 2, now it's down to waiting for a fall M5 Mac mini paired with either: a MacBook Neo, or an iPad Air 13"; both options are very attractive for my intended usage though the latter seems higher risk since I've never used a 13 inch tablet before.

The iPad gives you touch interaction, hand-held operation, a higher quality (albeit smaller) display, and a more resilient operating system (albeit managed). The Neo gives you a real keyboard, a bigger screen, and unified UX/software support with your desktop computer. But are you sure you need two devices? Why not just get a MacBook Air (with the same spec as your proposed Mac mini) along with a USB-C dock accessory…

Isn’t the Neo 13” as well? Also the iPad is usually closer to your eyes in use, so is effectively larger in terms of visual field.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#615
post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My laptop is always either plugged into a dock at work, or plugged into a dock or just a power supply at home. I feel like there's an untapped market for 'same laptop, but slightly cheaper because there's no battery in it at all'. Like you say most windows laptops have such garbage battery life already that it's not practical to use them unplugged.

> 'same laptop, but slightly cheaper because there's no battery in it at all' So, a simple computer? You can even choose your keyboard, mouse and screens.

Not the same - I still want to be able to just use and carry round the one thing without needing a monitor, mouse, keyboard etc at every single location, but I basically never need to use it somewhere where there isn't a wall socket available.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#616
post #401

I do not really understand why the Walmart $599 M1 MBA comparison is so lost in the MSM. The Neo is the same price (without edu discount). The Neo CPU benchmarks slightly better until the 4W performance limit factors in more real-world cases (then the M1 wins handily). So much is given up with the Neo: Worse screen, Worse keyboard, No TouchId, Worse Trackpad, etc. Yet Apple is praised for the Neo. No longer matters o…

>(then the M1 wins handily). How do you came to this conclusion when both are passingly cooled and A19 Pro is faster. Not to mention AV1 and other newer codec hardware accelerator and NPU / GPU improvements. Also remember M1 MBA is may be Walmart and US only. Around the world most dont even get a chance to buy M1 at $599. The display dont have P3 but is actually brighter than M1 400 nits. Not sure how Keyboard is wor…

"...handily...". Apple set the power limit for the A19 at 4 watts. The M1 does not have this limit. So in all tests using processes that tax the CPU, the M1 wins. Apple ignored the greater thermal cooling available with the new case. The A19 would beat the M1 if Apple did not do this. But no one really cares cause... it is Apple. The other points re: Walmart are valid. However, it goes to the point that Apple could sell the M1 at this price point, but chose not to. Seems likely the Walmart M1 at $599 had lower margins (My Guess), so the Neo was born.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My laptop is always either plugged into a dock at work, or plugged into a dock or just a power supply at home. I feel like there's an untapped market for 'same laptop, but slightly cheaper because there's no battery in it at all'. Like you say most windows laptops have such garbage battery life already that it's not practical to use them unplugged.

Eh, I want some battery, it's nice when you need to move rooms or someone kicks the power cable out. Even 15 minutes would be enough for a chonkster machine like this.

I wonder if a big capacitor would be cheaper than a battery, probably not with how huge in scale battery production is at this point.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#618
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. Just hired a new colleague who prefers Windows. Dell seemed like a reasonable option for a good laptop. Here is Dell's current lineup: - Dell Laptop (with 14, 15, 16 inch variants) - Dell Plus (with 14, 15, and 16 inch variants) - Dell XPS (with 13, 14, and 1…

> Dell Pro Max Premium > Dell Pro Essential At least they have a sense of humour Pro... Essential?! If the sold hotel rooms they'd offer a Deluxe Economy ??

As against the Economy Deluxe.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#619

IMO the consumer PC industry is near an existential crisis. The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. The exact same specs will be in two different chassis designs. Additionally, you can’t count on the basic being correct. It takes a hour of research to know if the trackpad is not-awful, keyboard doe…

For me right now, there are a bunch of Strix Halo unified memory laptops offering 64 to 128GB of unified memory that are the current best value. This will probably spill into next generation (Strix Medusa IIRC).

They're just very versatile and performant, and they're usually very good value. As a big plus you can run very decent models locally.

Framework are among my current top choices. Hearing good things about the Lenovo Yoga Pro 7a as well, and HP rather surprisingly. But there are a bunch of Ryzen AI Max+ 395 based laptops supporting up to 128GB of unified memory, and it looks like you can hardly go wrong with these.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#620
post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think It makes sense for iPad line up to be this way. Very clear feature segmentation that make sense. Most is directly result of underlying hardware. For consumer it's also very easy: - decide on size - go from your budget - if still too many SKUs go by features What features? Thunderbolt, Screen, Apple Pencil, Face ID Alternatively if you know what features you want, start with that. If you're struggling to choos…

Yeah, I don't think this lineup is particular crazy: - 8.3", one tier (mini) - 11", three tiers (iPad, Air, Pro) - 13", two tiers (Air, Pro) Could you spend the same amount of money on a regular 11" iPad with a lot of storage, or an iPad Air with less storage? Sure. Some people want lots of storage. Other people don't care but want a wide gamut screen, faster processor, and better pen capabilities. It's nothing like…

IMO it's telling that the lineup here is bucketized by screen size and not model. Screen size, processor performance, storage, sensors, etc are ambiguous concepts that don't mean much in their own merit. People don't really think "my priority is 8.3 inches"; people think in terms of use cases and cost.

For laptops the buckets are portability and performance. These two will always be at odds, and people will gladly prioritize one over the other; these are the ingredients you need for creating a model lineup. Each model prioritizes something different:

- Affordability, MacBook Neo

- Portability, MacBook Air

- Performance, MacBook Pro

There's people who will be carry this machine everywhere and will gladly sacrifice performance for portability. There's people who will gladly use a laptop as essentially a desktop they can occasionally move if it means maximum power. You even see this in the wider market; there's a clear category of laptops praised by their portability (ultrabooks), and another group praised by their power (gaming laptops).

I don't think there's an equivalent for tablets, since people don't really seem to need them for that much (lol). Apple has been focusing a lot on portability, but the market of people who carry their tablet everywhere isn't really that big, most people use them at home [1]. Digital nomads, students, PMs hopping around meetings: they're on laptops. Same with performance; people who need performance are on laptops.

The killer use-cases for tablets seem to be drawing and media consumption, but not only is drawing not a huge market, these two aren't at odds. Both are better with a better, bigger screen. A single dimension for improvement doesn't give you the ingredients for creating a model lineup, it gives you the ingredients for a price ladder where more money just gets you a bigger, better screen.

I think the iPad's lineup could be simplified to just one model, but I understand Apple want's to have several for marketing and price-ladder delineation, like it does with the iPhone. In that case, I think like the iPhone, the iPad could do with less overlap:

- 8.3", $ (iPad mini, affordable)

- 11", $$ (iPad, standard)

- 13", $$$ (iPad Pro, better in pretty much every way)

And keep the iPad Air in the same space as the iPhone Air, a novelty luxurious product that isn't the fastest nor the most affordable, but showcases premium hardware and what the future could look like.

I think Apple doesn't do this because it hopes to discover what people want through the grid of different screen size, thinness, performance, etc permutations that currently exist, but oh well.

[1]: https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.c...

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