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Banned in California

bannedincalifornia.org

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Re: Banned in California

#611

Post by Animats »

nine_k wrote: post #598
Animats wrote: post #574

Plating operations are a huge headache. They have corrosive plating baths. They have to do some chemical processing on site to neutralize the corrosive chemicals and get them down to a neutral pH. Some years ago, a plating company in San Jose dumped a plating bath into the sewer system. This was so toxic that it killed the bacteria that reduce organic sludge at the sewerage plant. This knocked the whole plant offline…

Nuclear power plants have secondary and tertiary overflow reservoirs, intended to capture any uncontrolled dangerous outflow if things go wrong. I wonder if chemical plants have something similar, a way to contain an uncontrolled outflow of toxic stuff if the normal flow of neutralization fails. BTW this likely means quite a bit of land used up by such a reservoir which is ideally never needed, but must be present.

Yes. In Silicon Valley, if you go to Bedwell Bayfront Park, which is behind Meta/Facebook HQ, there is, on the bay side, a small sewerage treatment plant. There's a fenced concrete-lined pond, usually empty. That is a sewerage overflow containment pond. It's next to a hiking trail, so it's easily visible to the public. That whole park, by the way, is a recycled garbage dump. So is the bay side park behind Google HQ.

Wastewater plants have other ponds and tanks which are part of the process, and they're usually full, with liquid moving in and out, accompanied by stirring, air, and chemical injection. A big empty one is a backup system.

Real engineering.[1]

[1] https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2014-09/documents/la...

Re: Banned in California

#612

Post by overfeed »

nine_k wrote: post #598
Animats wrote: post #574

Plating operations are a huge headache. They have corrosive plating baths. They have to do some chemical processing on site to neutralize the corrosive chemicals and get them down to a neutral pH. Some years ago, a plating company in San Jose dumped a plating bath into the sewer system. This was so toxic that it killed the bacteria that reduce organic sludge at the sewerage plant. This knocked the whole plant offline…

Nuclear power plants have secondary and tertiary overflow reservoirs, intended to capture any uncontrolled dangerous outflow if things go wrong. I wonder if chemical plants have something similar, a way to contain an uncontrolled outflow of toxic stuff if the normal flow of neutralization fails. BTW this likely means quite a bit of land used up by such a reservoir which is ideally never needed, but must be present.

> BTW this likely means quite a bit of land used up by such a reservoir which is ideally never needed, but must be present

This is enough to earn chemical plants a spot on a future "BANNED in California 2" article, because it's "clearly" overregulation.

Re: Banned in California

#613

Post by nine_k »

overfeed wrote: post #589
forgotaccount3 wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can bet you a hefty sum that Alameda will never go without electrical contractors. You *really* don't understand the issue then because no one is saying that there will be 0 electrical contractors. Electrical contractors will continue to exist because demand will continue to exist, but the wait time to get the work done will increase due to not enough electrical contractors. Or the work will be left undone becaus…

That's a lot of words to say business won't be driven away by regulations.

It's like saying that a ball-and-chain thing is not going to entirely prevent you from walking, so you're not denied the ability to walk. While technically correct, this conclusion misses a few important related consequences.

Re: Banned in California

#614

Post by archagon »

Dig1t wrote: post #609
archagon wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And starts out with a Musk quote, to boot. (Assuming it's not made up wholesale; could not verify.) We need to push these people out of California.

By “these people” do you mean the people who actually make things? These banned industrial processes sum to making almost every physical object. The net effect is that it’s nearly illegal to make anything physical. Do you think that the state or country will do well in the long term if it’s basically illegal to actually make things? Also funny that you Musk derangement people will never actually engage with the conte…

What’s funny is how much the chuds try to frame revulsion at white supremacy as “political disagreement” and “derangement.” As I was raised, this is actually just deadass “normal.”

I see no reason to engage in any way with the mental flatulations of this virulently racist Epstein fanboy. The quicker his empire can be dismantled and the sooner he gets utterly shunned from polite society, the better off we’ll all be. To a lesser degree, the same goes for his eager and willing co-conspirators.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/feb/12/elon-musk...

As for California, as a resident, I’ll take environment over industry, thanks. Half my home neighborhood is already a Superfund site. Go fuck up Texas if you like.

Re: Banned in California

#615

Post by dragonwriter »

bilbo0s wrote: post #423
kardianos wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Texas, which is still part of the USA, and we manufacture a great deal. I have a friend who works as an environmental engineer at a chem plant. They work hard to keep things safe and clean, and rigorously monitor their output. I'm sure we could do even more if we weren't competing in meany areas against legal jurisdictions which DON'T care about such things. We aren't "priced out". We are regulated out and…

This is what I don't understand? We do manufacture things. Just not in California. So why does it even matter if California bans manufacturing dangerous things? Who cares? Just manufacture it in some other state. As a bonus, you don't have to pay those high California taxes. In what world is this a problem?

> We do manufacture things. Just not in California.

California has the highest manufacturing employment and most manufacturing companies of any state, the second highest (behind only Texas) dollar value of manufacturing output.

It is just below the national average in manufacturing as a share of GDP, but its also the fifth highest state in GDP/capita; leaving it still above average in manufacturing GDP/capita.

Re: Banned in California

#616

Post by ceejayoz »

djha-skin wrote: post #582
Animats wrote: post #574

Plating operations are a huge headache. They have corrosive plating baths. They have to do some chemical processing on site to neutralize the corrosive chemicals and get them down to a neutral pH. Some years ago, a plating company in San Jose dumped a plating bath into the sewer system. This was so toxic that it killed the bacteria that reduce organic sludge at the sewerage plant. This knocked the whole plant offline…

[flagged]

> He wants this problem to happen to other people…

I think he wants them not to dump the chemicals straight down the sewer?

Re: Banned in California

#617

Post by Fischgericht »

kardianos wrote: post #305
temp8830 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is already effectively priced out of manufacturing due to high labor costs. Doing things with the "correct choices" simply makes the impossible even more so.

I live in Texas, which is still part of the USA, and we manufacture a great deal. I have a friend who works as an environmental engineer at a chem plant. They work hard to keep things safe and clean, and rigorously monitor their output. I'm sure we could do even more if we weren't competing in meany areas against legal jurisdictions which DON'T care about such things. We aren't "priced out". We are regulated out and…

I am not saying that you should tear down anything that works for you.

Trade barriers however are bullshit and don't work. And they are a lie. You are not building IPhones in the US because building an IPhone in the US would cost three times as much as it would doing in Shenzhen. And people would not be willing to pay that. And that's why they get an exception from the trade barriers. And that list of exceptions basically goes on and on and on...

Anyway, what works, works. This is especially true if that industry had been in the area for long, and therefore has access to a lot of skilled and experienced workers.

But it does not make sense to cry and complain that building such a thing from scratch is "banned". No, it is not banned. It's just a stupid idea, and there are laws against stupid ideas using limited natural resources.

Re: Banned in California

#618

Post by Animats »

harimau777 wrote: post #596
djha-skin wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

FWIW, I don't see anywhere that the parent post said that there shouldn't be plating plants in San Jose, just that they are dangerous.

Yes. It's a miserable business. Look at the pictures from the inspection of a plating plant. Everything near the process is corroded and covered with crud. Such plants have to be regulated and inspected, to prevent them from becoming a hazard both to the neighborhood and downstream.

Plants which do chemistry on an industrial scale tend to need their own waste processing, which gets the waste products down to a reasonably neutral form. Regulation is needed to prevent dumping it unprocessed. That's what the EPA really does.

Re: Banned in California

#619

Post by M3L0NM4N »

bilbo0s wrote: post #437
georgeecollins wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it could be better run for sure. We need to look at things other states seem to do well (Utah - homelessness, Texas - K12) and push to improve. The problem for me is that when you go out in the rest of the country the dislike bordering on hate for California is really common. It is insane to me that you can send Marines to Los Angeles and almost no one cares. California is a such a huge chunk of the US econom…

> Texas - K12 Uh.. I'd do Massachusetts K-12. Texas is pretty bad. Massachusetts consistently ranks in the top 10 in the world on PISA. An exam which removes all the political "BS"-ability from the results and comparisons. It's just your students taking the same test as all the other students in the world, and the resultant scores being ranked. Texas K-12 is horrible. Lived there from Katrina to a few years past Harv…

Texas K-12 performance has decreased significantly in recent decades, largely due to massive poorly-educated Hispanic immigration.
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