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Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

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Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#611
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that highway miles heavily skew this statistic. There's naturally far fewer pedestrians on highways (lower numerator), people travel longer distances on highways (higher denominator), and Waymo vehicles didn't drive on highways until recently. If you look only at non-highway miles, you'll get a much more accurate comparison.

Then you or Waymo can meet the burden of proof and present that more precise and better information. There is little reason to assume against safety at this point in time except as a intellectual exercise for how more accurate information could be found. Until then, it is only prudent to defer snap judgements, but increase caution, insist on rigor and transparency, and demand more accurate information.

Does common sense not factor in here at all? Advocating for such rigor is fine, but a refusal to state an opinion just reeks of bias

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#612
post #234

This is the classic Suddenly Revealed Pedestrian test case, which afaik, most NCAP (like EuroNCAP, Japan NCAP) have as part of their standard testing protocols. Having performed this exact test on 3 dozen vehicles (L2/L3/L4) for several AV companies in the Bay Area [1], I would say that Waymo's response, per their blog post [2] has been textbook compliance. (I'm not defending their performance... just their response…

Still relies on an actual driver.

“The event occurred when the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under six mph before contact was made,” a statement from Waymo explains.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-fault accidents happen. Accidents can have causes that are not legal nor moral blame.

The US commercial aviation industry did not get to its excellent safety record by simply shrugging and accepting a “no-fault accident”. There are always systemic factors that can be improved, for example working on street design to separate dangerous cars from children, or transportation policy by shifting transportation to buses, bikes, and walking where the consequences of mistakes are significantly reduced. Cars a…

"No fault" does not mean "no cause" and air crash investigations always focus on causes, not fault. When you understand causes, you can think about how to prevent them happening again.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#617
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. And to add > Waymo said in its blog post that its “peer-reviewed model” shows a “fully attentive human driver in this same situation would have made contact with the pedestrian at approximately 14 mph.” It's likely that a fully-attentive human driver would have done worse. With a distracted driver (a huge portion of human drivers) it could've been catastrophic.

If you drive in Sweden you will occasionally come up to a form of speed reduction strategy that may seem counterintuitive. They all add to make driving harder and feel more dangerous in order to force attention and lower speed. One is to merge opposite directional roads into a single lane, forcing drivers to cooperate and take turn to pass it, one car at a time. For a combined car and pedestrian road (max speed of 7k…

I recently visited a friend that lives in Sweden (couple hours south of Stockholm). Something he said while I visited stuck with me:

"Sweden hates cars."

There must be a happy medium somewhere in between.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because replacing average drivers with a better than average one would save lives.

Ha ha, you should suggest that to them: "Waymo: better than average driving!"

What's the joke here? If they are better than average drivers, that's a huge win which improves road safety for everyone

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#619

From the Waymo blog... > the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under 6 mph before contact was made. > Following contact, the pedestrian stood up immediately, w…

Yup. And to add > Waymo said in its blog post that its “peer-reviewed model” shows a “fully attentive human driver in this same situation would have made contact with the pedestrian at approximately 14 mph.” It's likely that a fully-attentive human driver would have done worse. With a distracted driver (a huge portion of human drivers) it could've been catastrophic.

[deleted]

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a runaway process of prioritizing safety over convenience -- and it's wrecking their road base just before self-driving cars would allow them to have both.

> prioritizing safety over convenience this sounds like exactly the right tradeoff, especially since these decisions actually increase convenience for those not in cars

Of course it sound right, because you cut off the word "runaway".

It is possible to go too far in either direction.

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