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The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

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611–620 of 981 posts

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason everything is priced at some variety of .99, 99.99, 999.99, etc: it sells better than 1.08, 108, 1080, etc. My point is getting the consumer to eat the sales tax on top is just a wise trick by US businesses, and nothing to do with complexity.

That's been debunked. Every consumer just auto-rounds in their head. Companies keep doing it because of tradition more than anything else. It is a wise trick, and exactly the job of government -- to prevent the public from getting tricked by businesses.

> That's been debunked. Every consumer just auto-rounds in their head.

Has it?

I'm searching around and not coming up with much that says that's the case.

On the other hand, here are some recent-ish links that suggest it still works:

- https://www.rd.com/article/why-prices-end-in-99/

- https://capitaloneshopping.com/research/pricing-psychology-s...

This one suggests it depends on the consumer, with "highly numerate" consumers being less likely to think the price is lower (but presumably also less common in the customer pool):

- https://business.missouri.edu/about/news/99-ending-prices-ar...

Edit: searching for "charm pricing" specifically suggests it does work, but I suppose maybe there's some bias on the context in which people use that term.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lets hope not. This is long overdue and should pose relatively little issue compared to most other recent questionable executive orders. stop minting and stop accepting is commonly separated to allow adjustment. so likely a later president will just add the second phaseout step.

I agree it's time to follow Canada and the rest of the world but it needs to be done through congress, not executive orders. It needs to have a proper framework for migration and laws for how payments are rounded.

I don’t believe we actually have a law that dictates how to round in Canada. There’s just a government recommendation.

I get that the U.S. is a much lower trust culture, but is it really necessary? The rounding is only for cash transactions.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#614
post #602

I've got a ridiculous question, but hear me out. Pennies have more zinc in them than they are worth, right? Did the penny have any sort of stabling force against inflation… a sort of "Zinc Standard" as it were? Civil libertarians are always talking about how moving away from gold coins, and later moving away from the gold standard that backed the non-gold coins is the root of inflation. If gold can have such an effec…

You can't legally melt down US coins for their metals

Even so, it has intrinsic value. A gold coin wouldn't become worthless just because the government stopped you from melting it. Same goes for a zinc coin.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's illegal in many, looks like most states: https://www.avalara.com/blog/en/north-america/2019/07/retail...

IIRC, in New York it’s illegal to absorb sales tax on individual items because by law it’s a consumer tax collected by the business and explicitly not a tax on the business itself, but - and it’s a pretty big exception - anything sold as a bulk good can include the tax in the price. That includes things like liquid fuels, grains or candy by the scoop in the supermarket, loose sand/gravel/salt/whatever for outdoor use…

Who actually pays the tax depends on the Elasticity of the consumer and the business. Who the law says it should be collected from, is really irrelevant.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SNAP equal treatment rule requirement works in both directions: Prices cannot be higher or lower for SNAP recipients. As a retailer, there is an option to request a waiver, though.

IMO, this is a strawman that is either going to be ignored or fixed easily. The law did not account for every possible situation. Removal of the penny from national currency is clear a situation where minor variations on otherwise normal transactions would not be in violation of the intent of the law. It'd be like TSA griping that your 100ml bottle of mouthwash was overfilled by .1ml because of slight variations in t…

I work in admin for a retailer. We got a nastigram from USDA last week reminding us that we were in no circumstances to help SNAP recipients in any way. The current administration very much does not care what the intent of the law is, and is actively looking for trivial violations as an excuse to punish SNAP recipients and SNAP retailers. It would not surprise me at all to see a retailer banned from the program for how they round pennies.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the French Revolution, they tried to make a right angle have 100 degrees and even recomputed all new trig tables for this new standard. It obviously did not catch on :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradian

There's no reason you can't have 400 degrees in a circle and therefore 100 for a right angle. It's a degree scale: you can choose any number you want.

Of course that's true, that doesn't mean you should.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just show the price including tax. (half-sarcastic, because obviously that would be an unpopular change for sellers because it makes the visible number go up, but it would solve two problmes...) They could still set the post-tax price to something that results in round numbers, at downside of the pre-tax price having more decimals.

> Just show the price including tax. With a tax rate as precise as 1000ths of a percent in many jurisdictions*, you'd need extreme precision on the price tag (e.g. $11.798625), OR you need to substantially overcharge for tax (rounding up the tax to the penny or nickel on each individual item, instead of on the total of ALL items). And sales tax rates can even be different from ONE CITY BLOCK TO THE NEXT. * Arizona: 1…

No, you still round the number, that goes on the price tag and adjust the other.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#619

Some interesting complications with rounding I had not heard about before were mentioned here, worth noting I think, especially given the prominence of SNAP in the news lately: >Four states - Delaware, Connecticut, Michigan and Oregon - as well as numerous cities, including New York, Philadelphia, Miami and Washington, DC, require merchants to provide exact change, according to the National Association of Convenience…

I think they should just change the prices to make it work out after tax. It’s not that hard.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#620
Copper pennies weigh 3.11 grams. Copper is currently US$10987 per tonne https://www.metal.com/en/prices/LME_CA_3M so a copper penny is worth 3.4¢. This is a surprisingly low number to me; I would have expected it to be closer to 10¢ or 20¢, since presumably it was about 1¢ of copper when it was still copper.

By comparison, a silver dime (90% silver, 10% copper) is 2.268 grams, and silver is US$1486.77/kg https://www.metal.com/en/prices/201102250392, so the dime contains about US$3.03 worth of silver. From the point of view of an 18th- or 19th-century person, for whom the purpose of the mint was to certify the value of the precious metal in the coin by stamping it, the dollar has lost 29/30 (97%) of its value since minting of silver coins ended.

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