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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#611

Post by tptacek »

tracker1 wrote: post #608
tptacek wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do they make more money by not paying? They're required to spend 80% of their funds on provider expenses. The only obvious way to sustain the narrative that insurers are distorting the system for profit is the preceding comment's hypo that they'd be over-paying (and then driving rates up as their expenses increased). You propose the opposite fact pattern here. (Net cost of health insurance, all expenses,…

They keep the 20% that they don't pay out... what they do pay out, they get the invested fraction of, which is less than than what they paid out. Even if they only get to keep up to 20%, doesn't mean they will pay a dime of what they can get away with not paying.

"What they do pay out they get the invested fraction of"?

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#612

Post by miki123211 »

chrisgeleven wrote: post #245

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

This is why AI is an equalizing force.

Eventually, we'll just have a free (or at least much cheaper) psychiatrist in our pocket.

Sure, AI advice is workse than the advice of a competent professional, but it's very often better no advice, and that's what you get if you can't afford the professional.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#613

Post by ryao »

vel0city wrote: post #519
ryao wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the outcomes in the US worse? Not that long ago (a couple months ago in fact), I looked at public data comparing cancer survival rates, which put the outcomes in the US at least 10% better than those in the UK. That was additive, such that a 20% survival rate in the UK for a type of cancer is at least a 30% survival rate in the US. The 10%+ better outcome in the US applied to all types of cancers for which I foun…

You're taking quite a small view of healthcare in the end looking at only cancer outcomes. Just ignoring things like maternal mortality, infant mortality, cardiovascular issues, etc.

You are right, but blanket statements only need one counter example to be shown to be false. I had looked into cancer data because I read some remarks made about cancer between the US and Europe and I was curious if they were true.

For what it is worth, I take a prescription medication for a non-life threatening condition. I had once called Costco in Canada to find out how much the price is there out of curiosity. They do not sell it. I then discovered that the drug my doctor prescribed is exclusive to the US and is not sold anywhere else in the world. Presumably, nobody else is willing to pay the exorbitant price that is charged for it. Even the generic is expensive. The US system is expensive, but it gives people access to more expensive treatments that simply are not available elsewhere.

That said, I might have an elective operation in the future. It would have been covered by insurance as a necessity when I was young, but my parents never pursued it and the underlying condition’s severity decreased when I became an adult such that it is now elective surgery. I expect to engage in medical tourism to have that done.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#614

Post by mr_toad »

onionisafruit wrote: post #583
mr_toad wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it’s crossed the mind of many people in the industry. But it’s a comprehensive taxonomy of all diseases, medical conditions, causes, procedures and treatments. Starting from scratch would be much more expensive than just paying the licensing.

What I mean is using it without paying the license, because if GP is accurate there is no copyright preventing it.

In that case its probably cheaper for most organisations just to pay the license fees than risk paying legal fees which would probably be more, even if they won.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#615

Post by tverbeure »

georgeecollins wrote: post #278
egorfine wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…

I think you are underestimating the number of Americans who make less than what Europeans make.

In both systems, the upper X% can afford it. But it makes no sense to focus on that. What matters is how many don’t have access.

That number is much larger percentage-wise here than in Europe. And it will only increase the way things are going.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#616

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Aurornis wrote: post #469
nonfamous wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that's hard to understand from the outside is that almost nobody actually pays those mind-blowing $200K hospital bills. US hospitals charge on a sliding scale based on the applicants' families' ability to pay. (I don’t mean to belittle your comment about universities which is factual and helpful. I’m just pointing out that US education system is just as fucked up as the US healthcare system the OP is talkin…

Also very true, and a good point. Even people in the US don't understand why those $200K hospital bills aren't real. Insurance providers (including government programs) have a fixed limit for what they pay for procedures. They pay min(billed_amount, allowed_amount) so providers don't want to risk leaving money on the table by having billed_amount So every time you see posts on the internet where people talk about the…

If the bills aren't real, why are there half a million medical bankruptcies every year?

Why do 41% of Americans have some form of medical debt?

https://www.kff.org/health-costs/kff-health-care-debt-survey...

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#617

Post by [deleted] »

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #487
nickff wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most other countries have voter ID, and the controversy surrounding it is puzzling to most foreigners. Additionally, parliamentary systems which result in majority governments are much more ‘dictatorship-like’ than the US system where individual representatives retain some autonomy.

A large number of Americans do not have ID's, which is strange to many people. If the need for voter ID and risk of fraud were so great, the efforts would be to make it trivial for these folks to get one, rather than preventing them from voting.

[deleted]

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#618

Post by sumeno »

tptacek wrote: post #610
sumeno wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I will. This claims the cost of attendance is $36,930-$42,310 per year: https://www.admissions.illinois.edu/invest/tuition This claims $21k per semester: https://cost.illinois.edu/Home/Cost/R/U/10KP0112BS/15/120258...

You just cited the out-of-state cost of the flagship state university in Illinois as if it were the in-state cost of a Directional State University in Illinois. Again: you have an argument here that depends on people not Googling list prices (the prices that nobody actually pays) and seeing what they actually are.

No I didn't, that is in state, it's right there on the page.

Directly from the page:

> Illinois Resident

> Tuition & Fees: $18,046-$23,426

> Food & Housing: $15,184

> Books & Supplies: $1,200

> Other Expenses: $2,500

> Total: $36,930-$42,310

I literally looked at the exact school you used in your example and you are just wrong

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#619

Post by maxerickson »

Zambyte wrote: post #163
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A code is not an artistic expression and so can't be copyrightable. The layout of a book of codes, for sure, but the information in it... might be protectable with other IPR but not copyright. Does not stop people threatening you though. This is my opinion only, not legal advice, and does not relate to my employment.

Software I write at work is not artistic expression yet is covered by copyright. This isn't a counter argument, just pointing out how absurd copyright is.

Artistic expression isn't the standard in US law.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#620

Post by tracker1 »

tptacek wrote: post #611
tracker1 wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They keep the 20% that they don't pay out... what they do pay out, they get the invested fraction of, which is less than than what they paid out. Even if they only get to keep up to 20%, doesn't mean they will pay a dime of what they can get away with not paying.

"What they do pay out they get the invested fraction of"?

If an insurance company owns 20% of the service provider, they only make a fraction of what the insurance arm pays to the provider arm.
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