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Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

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Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#611

Post by trimethylpurine »

LexiMax wrote: post #607
trimethylpurine wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"it's the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws..." Is this what universities are teaching? Where did you get this from, honestly? This is a terrible assertion. The subjectivity of what is just or unjust would lead to overwhelming violent lawlessness if this were true. Thankfully, we have no such duty. Please, stand up for what you believe is right within the legal framework. This is a largely just society,…

Being law abiding in a society run by lawless and violent thugs isn't contributing to a social fabric. It is a survival mechanism at best.

The fact of their being lawless would preclude the argument. If the government is lawless then by definition they are not law enforcing. Not a government.

I don't see that remotely fitting the United States as a generalization.

I would argue that if you do, you are either poorly traveled, or fanatical.

I would hope it's the prior, for everyone's sake. Try hailing a cab at midnight in the middle of Mexico before declaring the US to be ultimately lawless.

Maybe don't actually try that.

Regardless if you find the government to be so unjust as to convince you to break laws and become violent, you belong in prison and the majority of people will help to put you there, make no mistake. Regardless of leadership, I highly value that about the US.

I hope you'll change your mind before that happens.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#612

Post by docmars »

troad wrote: post #541
docmars wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break, don't play word games. If you created an app that essentially doxed police and schemed ways to circumvent their ability to enforce the law, I'd hope you would get in trouble for that, especially if it compromised the safety of those you care about, don't you agree?

What word games is he playing? You're making a factual claim about the legality of something, and you're being directly queried on the veracity of that claim. Given that it's legal (in the US) to film/livestream cops so long as they are not obstructed in the commission of their duties, and in the wider context of the First Amendment, I find it relatively hard to believe that merely reporting cop sightings is illegal.…

Tell me, why are police scanners illegal in some states when used to aid in evading police or used to facilitate criminal activity?

How is ICEBlock any different? And please, don't play dumb.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#613

Post by docmars »

ratelimitsteve wrote: post #599
docmars wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break, don't play word games. If you created an app that essentially doxed police and schemed ways to circumvent their ability to enforce the law, I'd hope you would get in trouble for that, especially if it compromised the safety of those you care about, don't you agree?

define doxxing. I saw a guy with a hat on on main st. is telling you that fact doxxing him?

Is the guy with a hat a law enforcement officer? Are you reporting his presence to evade a crime you or your friend are committing?

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#614

Post by troad »

docmars wrote: post #612
troad wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What word games is he playing? You're making a factual claim about the legality of something, and you're being directly queried on the veracity of that claim. Given that it's legal (in the US) to film/livestream cops so long as they are not obstructed in the commission of their duties, and in the wider context of the First Amendment, I find it relatively hard to believe that merely reporting cop sightings is illegal.…

Tell me, why are police scanners illegal in some states when used to aid in evading police or used to facilitate criminal activity? How is ICEBlock any different? And please, don't play dumb.

You're confidently asserting things that are legally unsupported, while accusing everyone else of being dumb. Rein it in, champ.

Using police scanners to listen to unencrypted radio chatter is legal in all states.

In minority of states, using police scanners is not legal while driving, and in all states it is not legal to use police scanners to aid in the commission of a crime. This is not that different from the laws that apply to, say, cellphones. You generally can't use those to commit crimes or while driving either. And yet, saying that 'cellphones are illegal' is obviously not an accurate representation of reality.

The bottom line here is that it is deeply unlikely that a court would find ICEBlock illegal. You may very well dislike that outcome, but it rather seems like your problem is with the Bill of Rights. In which case I can only recommend moving to a country without one - there are sadly very many.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#615

Post by valleyer »

docmars wrote: post #613
ratelimitsteve wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

define doxxing. I saw a guy with a hat on on main st. is telling you that fact doxxing him?

Is the guy with a hat a law enforcement officer? Are you reporting his presence to evade a crime you or your friend are committing?

ICE has been detaining and deporting non-criminal American citizens under this government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_and_deportation_of_A...

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#616

Post by kood »

fearless1ron wrote: post #80
mrinterweb wrote: post #15

Google is making it so sideloading APKs on Android is no longer possible. This is one of many great reasons why that should not happen.

I agree with you, but can we stop calling installing software on the hardware you own "sideloading"?

I think "sideloading" is a completely ok term. it says what it is,, you load an app, not with the intended method (appstores) but from an alternative source, aside the official store. not a native English speaker, so I might not fully understand the possible connotations with this particular word, but I do not personally see anything wrong with it.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#617

Post by weavejester »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #605
idiotsecant wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) it's not illegal, as evidenced by the fact that not a single person has been prosecuted. There is no law being broken, just the feel-feels of the surveillance state getting hurt. B) Even if there was a law, its the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws. The government serves at the pleasure of the people, not the other way around. There are a lot of people getting awfully comfortable with weak men ordering…

>"it's the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws..." Is this what universities are teaching? Where did you get this from, honestly? This is a terrible assertion. The subjectivity of what is just or unjust would lead to overwhelming violent lawlessness if this were true. Thankfully, we have no such duty. Please, stand up for what you believe is right within the legal framework. This is a largely just society,…

>> "it's the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws..."

> This is a terrible assertion. The subjectivity of what is just or unjust would lead to overwhelming violent lawlessness if this were true. Thankfully, we have no such duty.

The United States was founded by people defying unjust tax laws. It wouldn't exist as a country if its people had quietly accepted British law. The idea that it's the duty of Americans to disobey unjust laws is very much in line with its founding.

And when we look to history, the people who advanced freedoms and civil rights, the people we really remember - a great many of them were lawbreakers. Mahatma Gandhi was arrested for defying the British salt tax and colonial rule. Nelson Mandela was arrested for opposing apartheid. Martin Luther King Jr was arrested for breaking segregation laws and marching without a permit. Every person who signed the US Declaration of Independence was committing treason against the British crown.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#618

Post by trimethylpurine »

weavejester wrote: post #617
trimethylpurine wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"it's the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws..." Is this what universities are teaching? Where did you get this from, honestly? This is a terrible assertion. The subjectivity of what is just or unjust would lead to overwhelming violent lawlessness if this were true. Thankfully, we have no such duty. Please, stand up for what you believe is right within the legal framework. This is a largely just society,…

>> "it's the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws..." > This is a terrible assertion. The subjectivity of what is just or unjust would lead to overwhelming violent lawlessness if this were true. Thankfully, we have no such duty. The United States was founded by people defying unjust tax laws. It wouldn't exist as a country if its people had quietly accepted British law. The idea that it's the duty of America…

>"The United States was founded by people defying unjust tax laws."

It is not the duty of every American to establish their own tax laws and form their own confederacy of themselves and do whatever they feel like. You're comparing the establishment of a government to the duty of a citizen. I think you can see how that makes no sense, right?

MLK was a non-violent pacifist, and his march was legal. Overly restrictive permitting laws violate the first amendment and he made that clear by exercising his civil liberties, lawfully, in the face of disagreement and unlawful arrest.

Gandhi was arrested by an opposition government. He broke none of his nation's laws.

Mandela fought a war. He participated in revolution. Are we all supposed to lead revolutions? Every week a new AR-15 carrying psychopath should shoot people up that he disagrees with? - Obviously not.

Disagreeing peacefully with unjust laws is a protected right. But violence and lawlessness is absolutely not a duty. It's not even advisable.

And promoting it as such is completely senseless in a country where peaceful discourse is a protected right. You already won! You have a peaceful way to make a difference! Why would you break laws to make a statement when you can already make a statement without risking a prison sentence?

None of the people you've listed had that option.

I'm very much horrified that a clearly educated person could arrive at such a misguided and dangerous conclusion.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#619

Post by LexiMax »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #611
LexiMax wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being law abiding in a society run by lawless and violent thugs isn't contributing to a social fabric. It is a survival mechanism at best.

The fact of their being lawless would preclude the argument. If the government is lawless then by definition they are not law enforcing. Not a government. I don't see that remotely fitting the United States as a generalization. I would argue that if you do, you are either poorly traveled, or fanatical. I would hope it's the prior, for everyone's sake. Try hailing a cab at midnight in the middle of Mexico before decla…

> Try hailing a cab at midnight in the middle of Mexico before declaring the US to be ultimately lawless.

I've been to Portland, does that count?

> I hope you'll change your mind before that happens.

I don't think you do. I think that you fantasize about throwing your political opponents in prison, and uttering a veiled threat cloaked in empathetic language makes you feel powerful and clever.

In any case, I'm not sure what you took away from my response, but survival isn't a bad thing - at least not for the individual. It's clarifying, putting one in the proper mindset from collaborative to transactional and opportunistic.

Of course, systemic myopia and brain drain can hurt an organization worse than any direct action could ever aspire to, but organizations run by violent thugs aren't known for known for advancement based on competence as opposed to loyalty.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#620

Post by trimethylpurine »

LexiMax wrote: post #619
trimethylpurine wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact of their being lawless would preclude the argument. If the government is lawless then by definition they are not law enforcing. Not a government. I don't see that remotely fitting the United States as a generalization. I would argue that if you do, you are either poorly traveled, or fanatical. I would hope it's the prior, for everyone's sake. Try hailing a cab at midnight in the middle of Mexico before decla…

> Try hailing a cab at midnight in the middle of Mexico before declaring the US to be ultimately lawless. I've been to Portland, does that count? > I hope you'll change your mind before that happens. I don't think you do. I think that you fantasize about throwing your political opponents in prison, and uttering a veiled threat cloaked in empathetic language makes you feel powerful and clever. In any case, I'm not sur…

No. Travel to Mexico, or Africa, or other such places if you want to see what lawlessness does to society.

>I think that you fantasize about throwing your political opponents in prison

That's a xenophobic and false assumption. It's illegal to imprison your political opponents. I just said don't break the law, right?

Do you want to put people who disagree with you in prison?

It's perfectly legal to make a political statement in the US. It's illegal to harm people and property. Don't conflate those.

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