Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

middleeasteye.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

611–620 of 1001 posts

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#611

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

dlubarov wrote: post #135
beloch wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…

Why would we expect any desirable outcome in this hypothetical though? So the US flips, Israel is pressured into withdrawing, Hamas regains control of the strip and resumes rocket attacks, Israel is forced to respond eventually. It doesn't seem like a path toward a real solution.

As long as Israel controls the lives of millions of Palestinians who have no rights and who are treated like trash, there will be conflict.

In order to be effective, US pressure would have to be aimed at forcing Israel to do one of two things:

1. Withdraw its military from the Palestinian territories (East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza), dismantle all of its illegal settlements there, and recognize a fully sovereign Palestinian state. This is basically asking Israel to give up its dreams of taking over the Palestinian territories and to withdraw to its own borders - a simple ask.

2. Alternatively, Israel gets to keep the Palestinian territories, but it has to grant full, equal citizenship to the Palestinians who live there. That would mean that 50% of the Israeli electorate would be Palestinian, effectively ending the Jewish nature of the state of Israel. The next prime minister could be a Palestinian - who knows?

Israel has held onto the Palestinian territories for nearly 60 years without granting the people who live there (except for Israeli settlers) any rights. It has to either leave the occupied territories or grant everyone who lives under its control equal rights. It's actually quite a simple and reasonable demand.

Right now, because of unconditional US support, Israel has no incentive to do either of the above. Israel's leaders correctly believe that they can have it all: they can keep the land without granting the Palestinians who live there any rights. They operate with complete impunity. The US could end that impunity and impose real costs on Israel for its actions.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#612

Post by tdeck »

fakedang wrote: post #575
energy123 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese civilians experienced far worse in WW2, and they forgot pretty quickly. The war against the Tamil Tigers would be another case study. Once the radicalism is dealt with by force, the ratcheting of violence is reduced, and people move on.

> Japanese civilians experienced far worse in WW2, and they forgot pretty quickly Because the vast majority of the Japanese people barely faced any kind of obstacles in the same way Palestinians are facing. Yes, they had food shortages and their wooden homes were bombed constantly to oblivion, and they suffered a couple of nuclear blasts, but that was because their history lessons teach their WW2 as something in whic…

The analogy would be if the allies plan for ending WW2 was to ethnically cleanse the Japanese archipelago and expel Japanese people into, say, camps in Xinjiang. I imagine if they had consistently telegraphed such a plan for years during the war, the resistance might have continued longer.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#613

Post by impossiblefork »

jcranmer wrote: post #376
impossiblefork wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but WWII also had a phase called Phony War, and after that much of the war was in Poland. We could say that Ukraine is the current Poland.

The Phony War was the phase between the fall of Poland (took ~1 month) and the invasion of France, where the dominant phase of the war was actually taking place in Norway.

The Invasion of Norway was only the final month.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#614

Post by tdeck »

nradov wrote: post #340
leonixyz wrote: post #85

Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN. The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US. The UN has voted for decades for ending…

It's weird to claim that one country should be forced to trade with another country. International trade is voluntary on both sides. The US isn't responsible for keeping any other country's economy healthy. It's simply not our problem, and Cuban economic problems are a consequence of their own corruption and dogmatic incompetence. Should the US also be forced to trade with, let's say, North Korea? The UN serves as a…

The US sanctions countries and/or foreign businesses that trade with Cuba, the embargo isn't simply between the US and Cuba. Because the US has effective control of most of the world's financial system, it is able to enforce this.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#615

Post by ukblewis »

8note wrote: post #546
dotancohen wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

i saw this comment before going to take a look, but scrolling down from the top, the page seems to all be character assasination about Francesca Albanese and not disputing facts. you can look for yourself - its the same as the "its funded by lunatics" comment, just swapping which lunatics. if they've got arguments, they arent putting them forward as what they consider the most important.

[flagged]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#616

Post by _l7dh »

flyinglizard wrote: post #132
_l7dh wrote: post #33

[flagged]

The UN discredits itself: UNGA 2015-2023, 154 resolutions against Israel, 71 against all other countries _combined_. Of course it stems from the anti-Israeli bias of its members: a single Jewish state against 57 Muslim states.

It’s just proportional to the horrors it commits. Don’t blame the judge for your own crimes.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#617

Post by tdeck »

zpeti wrote: post #93
leonixyz wrote: post #85

Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN. The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US. The UN has voted for decades for ending…

What people fail to understand about dynamics between countries, is ultimately there is no supreme court or arbiter of truth. The UN doesn't have authority over any powerful country (or non powerful country for that matter). People seem to have this concept that there is some supra national legal system, or even moral system that can hold a higher truth than what powerful countries want, but there isn't. When it come…

> People seem to have this concept that there is some supra national legal system, or even moral system that can hold a higher truth than what powerful countries want,

Can you blame them? The same countries facilitating this genocide have been telling everyone they uphold principles of human rights and democracy, and a "rules based international order*, and that they oppose genocide. Only now are enough horrors breaking through in such a surreal way that people are forced to notice the contradictions.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#618

Post by _l7dh »

flyinglizard wrote: post #132
_l7dh wrote: post #33

[flagged]

The UN discredits itself: UNGA 2015-2023, 154 resolutions against Israel, 71 against all other countries _combined_. Of course it stems from the anti-Israeli bias of its members: a single Jewish state against 57 Muslim states.

the number one cause of child mortality today is Israel.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#620

Post by nradov »

tdeck wrote: post #614
nradov wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to claim that one country should be forced to trade with another country. International trade is voluntary on both sides. The US isn't responsible for keeping any other country's economy healthy. It's simply not our problem, and Cuban economic problems are a consequence of their own corruption and dogmatic incompetence. Should the US also be forced to trade with, let's say, North Korea? The UN serves as a…

The US sanctions countries and/or foreign businesses that trade with Cuba, the embargo isn't simply between the US and Cuba. Because the US has effective control of most of the world's financial system, it is able to enforce this.

Yes, of course. No one is required to use the US financial system. Other countries are welcome to build their own. Why should we allow ours to be used to prop up a brutal and illegitimate communist dictatorship?
Post reply on HN