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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#611

Post by Henchman21 »

tptacek wrote: post #601
Henchman21 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in Chicagoland and can report the same. The cops aren’t doing anything. Interestingly, it seems crime is going down while they do nothing. This leads me to believe we don’t actually need huge police forces.

I'm in Chicagoland too, and they're doing basically what they've always done: issue tickets --- automatically, now, as well as manually. What difference are you seeing?

Essentially the same as kasey_junk -- they're missing from the roads entirely. I frequently am in the areas of Lombard & Aurora for work, and I haven't seen a cop on the side of the road with someone pulled over in what feels like years.

I do see the insane driving. People going fast and weaving is the tip of the iceberg. Regularly now I see people using left turn lanes in intersections to pass people on the left and cut them off mid-intersection. Regularly I see people utterly spaced out on their phones, nearly stopped in the middle of the road -- these folks present a unique danger if you're doing the speed limit and not paying really close attention. But just generally, I think "good driving" went out of style during COVID, when a huge swath of people stopped driving.

These sorts of things I feel used to be addressed by the police in a very public way: you'd see that car that was weaving doing dangerous things pulled over a mile up the road as you continued on. THAT is what's changed, for me.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#612

Post by whamlastxmas »

beeflet wrote: post #503
whamlastxmas wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather every vehicle be high quality autonomous than humans, I think if all cars could signal both their locations and intentions we’d probably never have accidents and save millions of lives

you could just stick a transponder in the car, but it would be very dystopian

You mean like the one we carry on us 24 7?

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#613

Post by rcpt »

potato3732842 wrote: post #575
rcpt wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge skepticism that bicycles and motorcycles were getting backed into in any appreciable quantities.

How many people you willing to put in the hospital to prevent people from technically running reds on the yellow-red transition?

> in 2023, 1,086 people were killed in crashes that involved red light running

https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/red-light-running

So let's use that as an upper bound.

How many people were killed by these backups you're talking about?

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#614

Post by joecool1029 »

rcpt wrote: post #490
joecool1029 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say that. I said they'd panic and throw their vehicle into reverse. Cars/trucks can take the hit, motorcycles/bicycles not so much.

Huge skepticism that bicycles and motorcycles were getting backed into in any appreciable quantities.

If not that then rear-ended, here's the state's report on how red light cameras increased accidents: https://dot.nj.gov/transportation/about/publicat/lmreports/p...

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#615

Post by MisterMower »

margalabargala wrote: post #605
MisterMower wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automobiles saved an order of magnitude more lives when they replaced horses because horses leave manure on streets, which breed flies and other insects that can spread deadly diseases like typhoid fever. Cities were littered with horse droppings. The reduction in deadly disease spread caused by widespread automobile adoption more than outweighed the deaths caused by automobile crashes. I know that’s not really what…

> The reduction in deadly disease spread caused by widespread automobile adoption more than outweighed the deaths caused by automobile crashes. [Citation needed] That's really a...unique...take. The reduction in disease was due to things like antibiotics and water treatment facilities, and preventing contamination from human sewage. Horse manure does not cause widespread disease. Are you just making things up? Like,…

From the Typhoid Fever page on Wikipedia:

“Industrialization contributed greatly to the elimination of typhoid fever, as it eliminated the public health hazards associated with having horse manure in public streets, which led to a large number of flies, which are vectors of many pathogens, including Salmonella spp.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever

I appreciate the compliment, but no, I’m not an LLM, just an ordinary guy who has more understanding of these issues than you do.

Here’s a wild idea: fact check the stuff you claim I’m making up before you make a fool of yourself.

I think this conversation is over. You’re clearly an angry, closed minded person. Have a nice day.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#616

Post by tptacek »

kasey_junk wrote: post #609
tptacek wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Chicagoland too, and they're doing basically what they've always done: issue tickets --- automatically, now, as well as manually. What difference are you seeing?

Anecdotally, I have not seen a car pulled over on LSD south of the loop in _years_. That used to be common (my first year in Chicago I got 2 tickets there and don’t think of myself as particularly speedy). I’ve not seen a single person pulled over in my neighborhood in the same time, another activity that was common. Meanwhile traffic behavior has reached staggeringly wild levels. My impression, which is certainly no…

I've been pulled over in Chicago within the last couple months, for whatever that's worth. In Oak Park, this is a hotbutton issue, the belief that since COVID traffic enforcement is sharply down, and, apparently, by the numbers, it isn't.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#617

Post by kasey_junk »

tptacek wrote: post #616
kasey_junk wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I have not seen a car pulled over on LSD south of the loop in _years_. That used to be common (my first year in Chicago I got 2 tickets there and don’t think of myself as particularly speedy). I’ve not seen a single person pulled over in my neighborhood in the same time, another activity that was common. Meanwhile traffic behavior has reached staggeringly wild levels. My impression, which is certainly no…

I've been pulled over in Chicago within the last couple months, for whatever that's worth. In Oak Park, this is a hotbutton issue, the belief that since COVID traffic enforcement is sharply down, and, apparently, by the numbers, it isn't.

When I looked into the stats for cpd it was a mess. They got in trouble for monkeying with the stats, so they are already suspicious.

But by their numbers stop rates went way up for the 10 years between 2014-2024. But that was during the period when traffic stops were a primary strategy for crime prevention, that is the pretextual stops they got in trouble for.

Sadly, there was no checkbox for the officer to mark if it was a pretextual stop or not for study purposes.

I could probably isolate by stop location to some degree if I really wanted to do some digging. Maybe I can nerdsnipe ‘chaps into doing it for me.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#618

Post by margalabargala »

MisterMower wrote: post #615
margalabargala wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reduction in deadly disease spread caused by widespread automobile adoption more than outweighed the deaths caused by automobile crashes. [Citation needed] That's really a...unique...take. The reduction in disease was due to things like antibiotics and water treatment facilities, and preventing contamination from human sewage. Horse manure does not cause widespread disease. Are you just making things up? Like,…

From the Typhoid Fever page on Wikipedia: “Industrialization contributed greatly to the elimination of typhoid fever, as it eliminated the public health hazards associated with having horse manure in public streets, which led to a large number of flies, which are vectors of many pathogens, including Salmonella spp.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever I appreciate the compliment, but no, I’m not an LLM, jus…

Yeah, I think that's wise. The presentation of the single largest non-age-related killer in the western world as something that needs to be protected, for safety's sake, means we're sufficiently far apart on things like the value of a human life that productive discussions are difficult without someone getting frustrated and devolving into listing the sort of person the other is.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#619

Post by tptacek »

kasey_junk wrote: post #617
tptacek wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been pulled over in Chicago within the last couple months, for whatever that's worth. In Oak Park, this is a hotbutton issue, the belief that since COVID traffic enforcement is sharply down, and, apparently, by the numbers, it isn't.

When I looked into the stats for cpd it was a mess. They got in trouble for monkeying with the stats, so they are already suspicious. But by their numbers stop rates went way up for the 10 years between 2014-2024. But that was during the period when traffic stops were a primary strategy for crime prevention, that is the pretextual stops they got in trouble for. Sadly, there was no checkbox for the officer to mark if…

I do like that plan!

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#620

Post by dbg31415 »

beAbU wrote: post #541
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were other ways of tracking and observing vehicle behavior. And some reliable way of identifying vehicles themselves. Or ways that we could automate this with computers to sort through. But that's just science fiction. Cars are just going to be cars!

Kinda funny how the HN crowd can both decry and advocate for automated mass surveillance at the same time.

Not funny -- terrifying.

In Texas, traffic cameras that automatically issue tickets are illegal. Courts ruled they violate the constitutional right to face your accuser. And look, that's how it should be.

And I certainly don't want my own car, phone, or anything else I own snitching on me while I drive.

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